South of the Border

POSTED BY: dreamtrove
UPDATED: Monday, April 7, 2025 00:28
VIEWED: 2720
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DREAMTROVE

Tuesday, May 18, 2010 1:49 AM

If we can can the racism and deal with the real Mexican issue for the moment, which is not what they have done to us but what we did to them, by forcing them into our war on drugs, now what do we do?

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=126759§ionid=3510304

ANTHONYT

Tuesday, May 18, 2010 2:06 AM

Hello,

I'm not sure the 'war on drugs' is the problem cited by this article.

Rather, factors contributing to a problem seem to be

1) The consumption of drugs my the US
And
2) The ready availability of US firearms to criminals in Mexico.

I specify criminals, because in Mexico, it is difficult for the common man to have a legal firearm.

In both cases, an unprotected border seems to contribute to the problem. We are importing drugs and exporting weapons. This, a much more dangerous trade than importing immigrants. (And one rarely talked about, since it's our fault and can't be pinned on Mexico.)

So we either need to make the border less porous (unlikely), stop manufacturing and selling weapons in the US (unlikely), stop consuming drugs (unlikely) or convince the Mexican president to arm his entire citizenry (unlikely.)

We seem unlikely to resolve this problem.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

"You can lose a quark you don't girth." -Dreamtrove's words to live by, translated by Ipad

GEEZER

Tuesday, May 18, 2010 2:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
2) The ready availability of US firearms to criminals in Mexico.

Not too sure that's correct. Per the article cited.

Quote:
The exact numbers and types of weapons the cartels posses are still unknown, but vast arrays have been confiscated including: AK-47 assault rifles, AR-15 semi-automatic rifles, fragmentation grenades, M4 Carbines with M203 grenade launchers, various .50 caliber rifles, machine guns and light anti-tank rockets. According to reports, 90 percent of all the firearms that could be traced came from the United States. Many of them were purchased legally.

You can't legally purchase M4 carbines with grenade launchers, fragmentation grenades, or anti-tank rockets in the U.S. Purchase of fully automatic weapons in the U.S. requires all sorts of Federal background checks. AK-47s are available anywhere in the world for a few hundred bucks. I'd wager that most of the arms the cartels have can't be traced to anywhere, so the "90 percent of all the firearms that could be traced came from the United States" quote is pretty much propaganda.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

DREAMTROVE

Tuesday, May 18, 2010 3:24 AM

Geezer,

The key phrase there is "could be traced" but yes, though would term that spin. The choice of Iranian state news wasn't really a conscious one, they were the ones with the latest update on the story. Their spin, like our spin, is something I just tune out.

Anthony,

The situation has been going back a while, since 2006 but really fired up last year, about which the story is basically correct.

Here's the basic sequence of cause and effect related events

The US announces that as part of nafta, Mexico should join the US in the war on drugs. No one really thought the drugs came from Mexico, the strong suspicion was that they came primarily from Columbia, but there are Somme pharmaceutical companies in northern s. America and panama. Assume were talking about a lot of finished products here, by sea and by land.

Geographically, anything which comes by land has to go through Mexico, and because of nafta we have a special relationship with Mexico, if this had happened to an earlier generation, we would have selected panama for a similar reason.

The drug cartel response to police crackdowns was to start shooting back, and to get bigger guns. Geezer is undoubtedly right that most of these weapons quite likely came from elsewhere, china or Venezuela, or china by way of Venezuela, both of which are iranian allies, so yeah, they wouldn't want to point those fingers, especially if they were guessing when they did it. At anyrate, they've been buying the guns with the drug money which drives the need for more drug trafficking for the dealers.

Through drugs and arms laws authorities now potentially indict large gangs in the cartel. Remember, most of this drug traffic is through traffic, from south America to us.

The next step was for the drug cartels to take over the police force. This did not stop the fighting, because each trafficking ring had enemies not only in govt but in rival drug trafficking gangs. Police forces became the new military wings of the cartels.

Now were at a point where it's really hard to say who is actually a legitimate authority. Regional govts might claim that there force represents the wishes of the govt of mexico, but you can see how this develops,

The reason I bring this up now is that in 2006 the situation was not dissimilar to Detroit. Now the situation is not dissimilar to Iraq.

That there are some undocumented aliens in Arizona is not an issue, that theres a civil war in Mexico is. Of course, the two combined could make a problem, as the war could spread here.

Oh, and this a war of our making. Sure, there was a problem, but this was not a solution. Not to say that it's entirely our president's fault, but he and calderon haven't been helping the situation.

DREAMTROVE

Tuesday, May 18, 2010 3:35 AM

Ack double post

DREAMTROVE

Tuesday, May 18, 2010 3:35 AM

Oh no! Triple post!

DREAMTROVE

Tuesday, May 18, 2010 3:36 AM

Be nice and clean and use shaving cream.

Quadruple post.

FREMDFIRMA

Tuesday, May 18, 2010 5:40 AM

Pffth, legalize drugs, but yeah, no one wants to talk about that.

And the idea of the cartels buying crippled, overpriced american crap for firepower is flat out ridiculous when the suppliers can just chuck a couple AKs in there on top of the product.

-F

KWICKO

Tuesday, May 18, 2010 11:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
2) The ready availability of US firearms to criminals in Mexico.

Not too sure that's correct. Per the article cited.
Quote:
The exact numbers and types of weapons the cartels posses are still unknown, but vast arrays have been confiscated including: AK-47 assault rifles, AR-15 semi-automatic rifles, fragmentation grenades, M4 Carbines with M203 grenade launchers, various .50 caliber rifles, machine guns and light anti-tank rockets. According to reports, 90 percent of all the firearms that could be traced came from the United States. Many of them were purchased legally.

You can't legally purchase M4 carbines with grenade launchers, fragmentation grenades, or anti-tank rockets in the U.S. Purchase of fully automatic weapons in the U.S. requires all sorts of Federal background checks. AK-47s are available anywhere in the world for a few hundred bucks. I'd wager that most of the arms the cartels have can't be traced to anywhere, so the "90 percent of all the firearms that could be traced came from the United States" quote is pretty much propaganda.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

Thanks, Geezer - I've been trying to refute that myth for years now.

Although a good chunk of the fully-automatic, military-grade weaponry has indeed been coming from the U.S.;it's just that no one wants to address the HOW and WHERE of that issue. We're shipping truckloads of the stuff to the Federales and to the Mexican military, and *somehow* it seems to be ending up in the hands of the cartels we're supposed to be battling. Guess maybe they can buy it cheaper from their own police and military than they can from places like Venezuela and Colombia. Plus it's already in the country that way, so no need to try to smuggle it in when it's already been delivered to their door!

Here's the thing nobody wants to address: The guns aren't coming from legal U.S. sales or gunshows. They're coming from the U.S., but they're coming straight from our government.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

KWICKO

Tuesday, May 18, 2010 11:20 AM

Oh, and I did see a grenade launcher attachment for an M16/M4 for sale Saturday at the fun show - er, I mean GUN show. No grenades, though; that would be illegal. But you can get the launcher attachment. Not sure why anyone WOULD, but they're out there.

My buddy was searching for .223 blanks for his new AR that he just built up. He bought a golf ball launcher for it, which attaches to the end of the barrel and uses blanks to propel a golf ball downrange. I have no idea what the utility of such a thing is, unless he's planning on using it for nonlethal home defense. I kinda figure if I need to pull a gun on someone in my house, the time for bargaining has already passed...

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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