IRAN - What would you do?
POSTED BY: Jongsstraw
UPDATED: Wednesday, January 8, 2025 06:49
VIEWED: 6354
PAGE 6 of 8
Fair enough.
For me, "pro" tends to mean both agreement and support, and con means disagreement and lack of support. But not necessarily hostility.
I think that maybe there's too many factors here to boil anything down to "Pro-Israel" or "Pro-Iran." In this case it suggests supporting one side over the other, when I don't do either, and I also think that taking sides may be worsening the problem.
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Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
We ain't talking about Israel or Iran, either one, at this little moment. We are ( or at least I was ) posting about the correct grammatical usage of the terms " pro" and " con". On the question of Israel, I think it's best to table that argument for the here and now. We seem to disagree, and it's not the type of disagreement that can be resolved quickly or easily.
The mistake you seem to be making, NOBC, is that you mistake NOT being *A*N*T*I*-Iran as actually, actively being PRO-Iran. You seem to have this idea that one cannot be Iran-neutral.
As for the words "pro" and "con" - how's about we use "pro" and "anti", since they seem to fit better. I'm not ANTI-Israel, but I'm not exactly PRO-Israel, either. They have a right to exist, and to defend themselves. As does Iran. Let's just say that Iran has exactly as legitimate a right to nuclear weapons as Israel does. Or Pakistan. Or North Korea. Or South Africa. Or France, Great Britain, Russia, Ukraine, Georgia, the United States...
When it comes to Israel, or Iran, or Iraq, I'm Switzerland.
Mike
Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde
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Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
In the now-ancient words of Star Trek: " What the Klingon has said is unimportant and we do not hear his words"-- " Watch out, Jim, I just called the Klingon a liar."
Either you accessed IMDB quotes, or you have some great memory to come up with that line from Star Trek. The Klingon in question was played by Tige Andrews, who later went on to do the Mod Squad tv series. Friday's Child, a great episode that featured the lovely Julie Newmar, is one of my personal favorites.
" Sorry, neither..." to steal another Trek quote. That particular usage is one that I carry around in my head. A really polite way of calling someone a liar...
Where exactly am I lying asshole ?
I am simply pointing out a flaw in your bullshit, as I am sure you are anti Cuba, despite their gesture to help in a diaster. I can respect people who have opposing opinions but I have no time for hypocrites or assholes... so go fuck yourself
Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists
Lets party like its 1939
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Can everyone please just chill?
Thanks.
Frem, sad story. If we're leaders of the free world, I fear for the free world.
Byte
As for Israel, bulldozing palestinian homes also hits noses.
I think there was a thread here about Iran, somewhere in the middle of seasonal shopping insanity disorder
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Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Frem, sad story. If we're leaders of the free world, I fear for the free world.
Meh you wanna talk fear, consider that as of yesterday I meet the one year residency requirement to run for THIS townships city council.
And I rejected a well paid consultant position to em that would have excluded me from doing so, a couple months ago - because it struck me as more or less a bribery attempt, and I would rather have the value of a threat enough to make them concerned about the will of their constituents.
I wouldn't do it, despite having enough votes to at least place on the ballot, being that this end of the county is quite fond of my security* forces, but my claws around their neck is a damn stern reminder that they'd best know their place.
-Frem
*And I love my puny little business, which I would not be able to run due to conflict of interest, so there's that, too.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Congrats! You're the President. What do you do to thwart Iran's nuclear ambitions? How do you handle Iran's defiance to the world?
Blockade?
Sanctions?
Attack?
Nothing?
I don't have an answer. I only know that any of the above can have dire consequences. I know that if there is some kind of attack, either by Israel or the US, that our economic way of life will be forever changed. Oil could soar to $200 per barrel, giving us $10 gas or worse. That would just about put the final nail in the economic coffin in this country. Blockade them and we risk the same economic results. Do nothing and we risk nuclear and/or dirty proliferation by terrorist components aligned with Iran.
So what would you do? And what would you do if you got that 3:00am call from Israel saying they've run out of time and have to act now?
Getting back on track, maybe, here's one thing I've learned:
It's okay to say "I don't have an answer". Thing is, where we tend to go horribly wrong is, we have a bad habit of following that with a military attack. As a general rule, "I don't have an answer, so let's invade" is not a viable policy, and is going to have disastrous results for all involved. Ask Iraq. Ask Afghanistan, a whole bunch of times. Ask Vietnam. Or Korea. Ask Japan how it worked out for them last time they tried that tactic. "I don't know what to do about America. Let's attack at Pearl Harbor!"
Sometimes, doing nothing actually IS preferable to doing the wrong thing.
As for what I'd do if I got that 3:00am phone call from Israel? First off, I'd remind them about time zones, and let them know that just because it's 10:00am in Tel Aviv, there ARE people who are trying to get a little sleep.
Then I'd tell them that I understand completely, I hope they have enough weaponry to finish their task, because they certainly will not be getting any more from the United States, because if Israel launches a war, it's Israel's war, and the U.S. wants no part of this one. Oh, and good luck with the Chinese, because we're really not going to be able to help much when they get involved either. They're holding a whole bunch of our money hostage, so you understand, right?
Show Israel that it doesn't automatically get a free pass and our certain backing no matter what, and I bet they'll mediate their message real damned quick. Especially if such a message sent by us also has a pricetag attached to it. "Quit fucking around and get serious about living with your neighbors, or kiss every penny of aid from the U.S. goodbye."
Hey, if we're supposed to take a hard line with Iran, why not with Israel as well?
Mike
Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Congrats! You're the President. What do you do to thwart Iran's nuclear ambitions? How do you handle Iran's defiance to the world?
Blockade?
Sanctions?
Attack?
Nothing?
I don't have an answer. I only know that any of the above can have dire consequences. I know that if there is some kind of attack, either by Israel or the US, that our economic way of life will be forever changed. Oil could soar to $200 per barrel, giving us $10 gas or worse. That would just about put the final nail in the economic coffin in this country. Blockade them and we risk the same economic results. Do nothing and we risk nuclear and/or dirty proliferation by terrorist components aligned with Iran.
So what would you do? And what would you do if you got that 3:00am call from Israel saying they've run out of time and have to act now?
Getting back on track, maybe, here's one thing I've learned:
It's okay to say "I don't have an answer". Thing is, where we tend to go horribly wrong is, we have a bad habit of following that with a military attack. As a general rule, "I don't have an answer, so let's invade" is not a viable policy, and is going to have disastrous results for all involved. Ask Iraq. Ask Afghanistan, a whole bunch of times. Ask Vietnam. Or Korea. Ask Japan how it worked out for them last time they tried that tactic. "I don't know what to do about America. Let's attack at Pearl Harbor!"
Sometimes, doing nothing actually IS preferable to doing the wrong thing.
As for what I'd do if I got that 3:00am phone call from Israel? First off, I'd remind them about time zones, and let them know that just because it's 10:00am in Tel Aviv, there ARE people who are trying to get a little sleep.
Then I'd tell them that I understand completely, I hope they have enough weaponry to finish their task, because they certainly will not be getting any more from the United States, because if Israel launches a war, it's Israel's war, and the U.S. wants no part of this one. Oh, and good luck with the Chinese, because we're really not going to be able to help much when they get involved either. They're holding a whole bunch of our money hostage, so you understand, right?
Show Israel that it doesn't automatically get a free pass and our certain backing no matter what, and I bet they'll mediate their message real damned quick. Especially if such a message sent by us also has a pricetag attached to it. "Quit fucking around and get serious about living with your neighbors, or kiss every penny of aid from the U.S. goodbye."
Hey, if we're supposed to take a hard line with Iran, why not with Israel as well?
Mike
Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde
Only problem with this is the US is in control of Iraqs airspace, if Israel gets to play through, do you allow Iran to do so as well ?
or will Iran simply assume as Israel played through it was with US consent and they throw everything they have at any US base and staging area they can reach...
Any play Israel makes unilaterally causes more trouble... Turkey ( my understanding ) would defend its airspace dragging NATO in, Iraq airspace will drag the US in, and Saudi Airspace would likely be both defended and dragging the US in.
As any attack this distance would require dozens of aircraft, air refueling, etc it would be hard to claim they snuck through after the fact...
http://www.airforce-technology.com/news/news68843.html
The Iraqi Air Force will be able to enhance its air defence capabilities with the arrival of a new digital air surveillance radar (DASR) system.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=100143§ionid=351020201
" Amid reemerging speculations of an Israeli sneak attack on Iran, Baghdad warns Tel Aviv against using Iraqi airspace to carry out its military plans against Tehran.
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Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Congrats! You're the President. What do you do to thwart Iran's nuclear ambitions? How do you handle Iran's defiance to the world?
Blockade?
Sanctions?
Attack?
Nothing?
I don't have an answer. I only know that any of the above can have dire consequences. I know that if there is some kind of attack, either by Israel or the US, that our economic way of life will be forever changed. Oil could soar to $200 per barrel, giving us $10 gas or worse. That would just about put the final nail in the economic coffin in this country. Blockade them and we risk the same economic results. Do nothing and we risk nuclear and/or dirty proliferation by terrorist components aligned with Iran.
So what would you do? And what would you do if you got that 3:00am call from Israel saying they've run out of time and have to act now?
Getting back on track, maybe, here's one thing I've learned:
It's okay to say "I don't have an answer". Thing is, where we tend to go horribly wrong is, we have a bad habit of following that with a military attack. As a general rule, "I don't have an answer, so let's invade" is not a viable policy, and is going to have disastrous results for all involved. Ask Iraq. Ask Afghanistan, a whole bunch of times. Ask Vietnam. Or Korea. Ask Japan how it worked out for them last time they tried that tactic. "I don't know what to do about America. Let's attack at Pearl Harbor!"
Sometimes, doing nothing actually IS preferable to doing the wrong thing.
As for what I'd do if I got that 3:00am phone call from Israel? First off, I'd remind them about time zones, and let them know that just because it's 10:00am in Tel Aviv, there ARE people who are trying to get a little sleep.
Then I'd tell them that I understand completely, I hope they have enough weaponry to finish their task, because they certainly will not be getting any more from the United States, because if Israel launches a war, it's Israel's war, and the U.S. wants no part of this one. Oh, and good luck with the Chinese, because we're really not going to be able to help much when they get involved either. They're holding a whole bunch of our money hostage, so you understand, right?
Show Israel that it doesn't automatically get a free pass and our certain backing no matter what, and I bet they'll mediate their message real damned quick. Especially if such a message sent by us also has a pricetag attached to it. "Quit fucking around and get serious about living with your neighbors, or kiss every penny of aid from the U.S. goodbye."
Hey, if we're supposed to take a hard line with Iran, why not with Israel as well?
Only problem with this is the US is in control of Iraqs airspace, if Israel gets to play through, do you allow Iran to do so as well ?
or will Iran simply assume as Israel played through it was with US consent and they throw everything they have at any US base and staging area they can reach...
Any play Israel makes unilaterally causes more trouble... Turkey ( my understanding ) would defend its airspace dragging NATO in, Iraq airspace will drag the US in, and Saudi Airspace would likely be both defended and dragging the US in.
As any attack this distance would require dozens of aircraft, air refueling, etc it would be hard to claim they snuck through after the fact...
The Iraqi Air Force will be able to enhance its air defence capabilities with the arrival of a new digital air surveillance radar (DASR) system.
" Amid reemerging speculations of an Israeli sneak attack on Iran, Baghdad warns Tel Aviv against using Iraqi airspace to carry out its military plans against Tehran. "
" raqi parliament members on Wednesday warned Israel that using using its country's airspace to attack Iran would be considered an attack against Iraq.
"Any penetration of Iraqi airspace by an Israeli national would be consideredNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Couple things:
1) Gino, you'll note that in my hypothetical presidency, I never gave Israel permission to use Iraqi airspace. :) Looks to me like they're going to have to take the long way 'round, ALLLLLL the way around the Arabian peninsula, since I really doubt Syria, Jordan, Turkey, or Iraq are going to allow them to play through.
2) Jongs, I'm right there with ya. Seems there was a time when bad stuff would "just happen" when someone was doing something the Israelis didn't like, and their plans would all come to naught, and Israel would walk away clean. Either they had plausible deniability, or they would simply come clean after the fact, and act all "What? Was that wrong? Should we not have done that?", like they did with Iraq's nuclear reactor project.
As for learning to live with it, worse things have happened. We (humans in general, not just Americans) always assume that the nation we don't trust at the moment is the craziest bunch of animals on the face of the planet, capable of any atrocity at a moment's notice. Truth is, that's rarely the case, and more often than not, they're just people too, trying to live their lives and be their own nation and chart their destiny. There was a time when the Russians getting the bomb was the scariest thing imaginable, because they were crazy godless barbarians who would stop at nothing to take over the world. Except that they got the bomb - tens of thousands of them, in fact - and it turns out the Russians DO love their children, too, as the old Sting song goes. Then it was the segregated South Africa we had to fear - what would happen when "the black problem" got their hands on South Africa's nuclear stockpile? Answer: not much. Then it was Pakistan - a MUSLIM nation with The Bomb, OH NOES!!! A few years ago it was Korea; amazingly, Hyundai still sends cars our way, and none of them are releasing mushroom clouds from their tailpipes.
It's just another thing. It's a concern, it's a worry, but it's not THE worry. I'm more scared that I might die at the hands of a cellphone-talking-driver than from any Iranian nuke or any terrorist attack. Of the three, one of them is a proven killer, day after day, year after year.
Mike
Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
That strategy certainly worked in Iraq!
Your confusing the embargo on Iraq oil exports with an embargo on Iranian gasoline imports.
Its different for two reasons. One, gasoline is refined oil and two, an import means its going in.
The gasoline idea is not mine, its considered the most severe option short of military action in the playbook. Iran's economy, already on weak footing, would simply shut down in a matter of days likely resulting in massive social unrest and violence. Iran would be forced to respond militarily, which is why the option has not been used. Once used military confrontation is inevitable.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
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