Dollhouse 2.04: Belonging - Sierra is forced to face her past. Post comments here.

POSTED BY: Haken
UPDATED: Friday, May 13, 2011 14:49
VIEWED: 15320
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FILLYGIRL

Tuesday, October 27, 2009 11:19 AM

I agree with most of whats been said, I justlove how the 'dolls' are off and running,...they now know something and Echo knows the most. I see a revolt from the inside along with the 'outside' attacking at the same time..
JMHO---I did not see the 13th episode, want to wait. I could be wrong....

awesome episode!

Chaplain of the 76th Independant Battalion

Do not bother dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

...it's worse than you know...Operative
...it usually is.....Mal

ASARIAN

Tuesday, October 27, 2009 3:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Since when does Adelle care about her dolls being raped?

Adelle has always cared about her Dolls being raped. Have you forgotten "Man on the Street"? Sierra's bad-man handler is repeatedly raping her, and Adelle, when she finds out, not only puts an abrupt stop to it, but also informs the other Houses, sending the message that this sort of abuse is absolutely not tolerated. Oh yeah, and then she has the guy killed.

Adelle seems to have a strange kind of conscience: she pimps out her Dolls with no quams, yet is outraged when a handler rapes them. It really only 'seems' strange, though, as I'd say this is normal human behavior. The bad guy is rarely a drooling madman (Highlander). Instead, they are often people who do bad things, yet like to believe they have a working set of morals (Badger's "Man of honor in a den of thieves." leaps to mind). Adelle does objectionable things, yet does not see herself as evil. Denial is not just a river. :)

Whatever rationalizations plague Adelle, she DOES care about her Dolls getting raped. She is, in this respect, really no different that any other whore Madam: exploiting her girls to the max, yet also being protective of them--some of the latter is self-serving (dead/beaten up whores are bad for business), but part of Adelle's protective disposition towards her Dolls is genuine.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

ZEEK

Tuesday, October 27, 2009 9:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Since when does Adelle care about her dolls being raped?

Adelle has always cared about her Dolls being raped. Have you forgotten "Man on the Street"? Sierra's bad-man handler is repeatedly raping her, and Adelle, when she finds out, not only puts an abrupt stop to it, but also informs the other Houses, sending the message that this sort of abuse is absolutely not tolerated. Oh yeah, and then she has the guy killed.

Adelle seems to have a strange kind of conscience: she pimps out her Dolls with no quams, yet is outraged when a handler rapes them. It really only 'seems' strange, though, as I'd say this is normal human behavior. The bad guy is rarely a drooling madman (Highlander). Instead, they are often people who do bad things, yet like to believe they have a working set of morals (Badger's "Man of honor in a den of thieves." leaps to mind). Adelle does objectionable things, yet does not see herself as evil. Denial is not just a river. :)

Whatever rationalizations plague Adelle, she DOES care about her Dolls getting raped. She is, in this respect, really no different that any other whore Madam: exploiting her girls to the max, yet also being protective of them--some of the latter is self-serving (dead/beaten up whores are bad for business), but part of Adelle's protective disposition towards her Dolls is genuine.

Apparently she has a different definition of rape though. She sends all the dolls out on romantic engagements all the time. If that's not rape then why is what the client did rape? She has done the exact same thing with Victor that the client did.

I'd guess that she was upset with the handler because Sierra was not in the correct state of mind when the handler raped her. If she had been imprinted to enjoy it then would she consider it rape? I doubt it.

So, again she's inconsistent when she calls their client a rapist. They need to watch their continuity IMO.

RIVERDANCER

Tuesday, October 27, 2009 11:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
If that's not rape then why is what the client did rape?

You don't pay attention very well. He had known Sierra before she was in the dollhouse, he had kidnapped and drugged her expressly for the purpose of having her admitted into the dollhouse so that he could hire her for sexual engagements after the woman herself had refused his advances. Since they do, in fact, retain some consciousness, Sierra remembered him on some level and was unhappy and stressed by the encounters. The woman at the core of the programming detested this man, on a personal level, and never could have wanted him. Echo said he wasn't like the others, that he made Sierra suffer. Clients who wanted to abuse a doll in the bedroom were refused (though clients who wanted a spanking themselves were welcome to it) and other such precautions were taken to ensure safety as much as possible. I think the comparison of Adelle to a Madam is apt, though the ground she stands on is shakier because she has to make the call on her own, without much input from her charges. Not that I would defend the dollhouse, but Adelle certainly draws some lines and tries to be ethical as much as she can. She used Vincent in her fantasy fulfillment, but he wasn't someone she had known, been rejected by, threatened to rape, contrived to have locked in her dollhouse, and then hired, etc etc etc. There's a lot of nuance and shades of gray here, which you would do well to notice more.

ZEEK

Wednesday, October 28, 2009 9:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiverDancer:
Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
If that's not rape then why is what the client did rape?

You don't pay attention very well. He had known Sierra before she was in the dollhouse, he had kidnapped and drugged her expressly for the purpose of having her admitted into the dollhouse so that he could hire her for sexual engagements after the woman herself had refused his advances. Since they do, in fact, retain some consciousness, Sierra remembered him on some level and was unhappy and stressed by the encounters. The woman at the core of the programming detested this man, on a personal level, and never could have wanted him. Echo said he wasn't like the others, that he made Sierra suffer. Clients who wanted to abuse a doll in the bedroom were refused (though clients who wanted a spanking themselves were welcome to it) and other such precautions were taken to ensure safety as much as possible. I think the comparison of Adelle to a Madam is apt, though the ground she stands on is shakier because she has to make the call on her own, without much input from her charges. Not that I would defend the dollhouse, but Adelle certainly draws some lines and tries to be ethical as much as she can. She used Vincent in her fantasy fulfillment, but he wasn't someone she had known, been rejected by, threatened to rape, contrived to have locked in her dollhouse, and then hired, etc etc etc. There's a lot of nuance and shades of gray here, which you would do well to notice more.

If it's a shade of gray why did she flip out and go all black and white on him? She wasn't slightly offended by what he did she was down right pissed.

Trust me, I watched the episode. I also watched the previous episodes. To me Adelle was out of character.

RIVERDANCER

Thursday, November 5, 2009 4:58 PM

I never said you hadn't watched the episode or any previous episode, I said you could maybe benefit from paying more attention. Case in point, you apparently didn't pay much attention to what I said.

DEWRASTLER

Thursday, November 5, 2009 8:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Quote:
Originally posted by RiverDancer:
Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
If that's not rape then why is what the client did rape?

You don't pay attention very well. He had known Sierra before she was in the dollhouse, he had kidnapped and drugged her expressly for the purpose of having her admitted into the dollhouse so that he could hire her for sexual engagements after the woman herself had refused his advances. Since they do, in fact, retain some consciousness, Sierra remembered him on some level and was unhappy and stressed by the encounters. The woman at the core of the programming detested this man, on a personal level, and never could have wanted him. Echo said he wasn't like the others, that he made Sierra suffer. Clients who wanted to abuse a doll in the bedroom were refused (though clients who wanted a spanking themselves were welcome to it) and other such precautions were taken to ensure safety as much as possible. I think the comparison of Adelle to a Madam is apt, though the ground she stands on is shakier because she has to make the call on her own, without much input from her charges. Not that I would defend the dollhouse, but Adelle certainly draws some lines and tries to be ethical as much as she can. She used Vincent in her fantasy fulfillment, but he wasn't someone she had known, been rejected by, threatened to rape, contrived to have locked in her dollhouse, and then hired, etc etc etc. There's a lot of nuance and shades of gray here, which you would do well to notice more.

If it's a shade of gray why did she flip out and go all black and white on him? She wasn't slightly offended by what he did she was down right pissed.

Trust me, I watched the episode. I also watched the previous episodes. To me Adelle was out of character.

Adelle was upset because she believes that all her Dolls are there of their own free will, and therefore in her mind they consent to whatever is done to them over the five year span (I'm not saying this is right, just the way Adelle sees it). When she finds out Priya was essentially forced into the situation, that it was not her choice (again, she's assuming that the crazy person agreed to being 'helped'), then she was thoroughly pissed. She thought she was doing a good thing, turns out she was aiding a man into forcing sexual encounters with a woman who had rejected him. In Adelle's mind, that is rape, whereas the actions of Dolls are not.

________________________________
People who don't care about anything will never understand the people who do

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Friday, May 13, 2011 1:04 PM

This episode ends the suspension of disbelief for me. I watched the eps all together from DVD, both seasons.
This thread makes me wonder if I wathced the same episode, until the last few posts before this one, around where Riverdancer makes her points. But I still can't fathom that this ep is acceptable.

Maybe you all got some info that I missed, so help me if I didn't get it.

How can they put Priya back in the Dollhouse?
They know now she was never contracted, her presence here is against her will, she is effectively still kidnapped, the corp should have no hold on her now that her rapist is dead, how can anybody do anything but give her back her life? Even if she had some reason to return to slavery, it would seem the contract should be mated with Victor's, so they both expire at the same time.
This seems dispicable.

I'd rather not hear spe ulation, but if you heard an adequate explanation in the dialogue, please fill me in. This ticks me off. Injustice of the highest magnitude, it seems to me.

ZEEK

Friday, May 13, 2011 2:49 PM

I think this episode just clarifies that the company is evil. I mean originally I could sort of accept that if people willingly chose to sign up then it's not so bad. This episode makes the point that it isn't all done on the up and up.

Unfortunately I don't remember the details of Sierra being brought back into the Dollhouse. I thought it was something like killing that dude was a painful memory for her and she wanted the blissful ignorance of the Dollhouse. So, she went back willingly. Maybe.

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