Drugs in the verse.

POSTED BY: jewelstaitefan
UPDATED: Monday, August 10, 2009 08:21
VIEWED: 5933
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BYTEMITE

Thursday, August 6, 2009 2:20 PM

Look on the bright side; you could always start a beverage business!

BYTEMITE

Thursday, August 6, 2009 3:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
I personally found it kind of profound the way River asked "Is it time to go to sleep again?" in Ariel, and just looked at Simon rather sadly when he said it was time to wake up.
Not that I don't think Simon wasn't trying to help River, he clearly was. He cared for her and wanted her to be well. And maybe, with her brain sliced apart, nothing would make her truly sane or stable, and the best option would be the illusions created by drugs. But I also think the mind is an extraordinary thing, that can solve a lot of problems. Brains have been seen to re-wire themselves to compensate for things that might be damaged in some way. The nervous system is designed to regulate us, in all our chemical needs, and it's when the nervous system is out of whack that we have problems. I think it can actually be fixed, not just glossed over so many times it forgets its function.
Illusion is all drugs offer. They don't offer wellness, they don't offer a true cure for anything, they just make it easier to ignore problems. I don't condemn anyone who takes medications when they have a real debilitating problem, but too often I see medications taking the place of pursuing actual wellness, because they're easier. When it isn't a medication, it's alcohol or other non-pharma 'solutions.' They form dependency, all of them, because people who take them too much don't want to face what things might be like without them, and convince themselves that they can't. Ultimately, I think drugs deaden experience of life, both good and bad. They gloss over parts of reality that we might not like, and at the same time I think they can gloss over some of the best feelings in the world. Some of them can spark poor judgment, and all of them have unwanted effects.
I don't use anything beyond caffeine and the occasional painkiller. I limit painkillers as much as possible, especially since I read a tiny little study that said Tylenol was likely the leading cause of liver damage in the country. I find alcohol distasteful, literally I can't stand the taste or the smell, and I like to have all my faculties intact anyway. I find all forms of smoking stinky and offensive, so it never crossed my mind to do it myself. And when I've felt depressed or anxious, which has happened more than once, I find out why and I do my best to face it. Not a super-pleasant process, but it's worked so far. My support system usually involves chocolate and plenty of vitamins, which actually do seem quite helpful. Chocolate pretty much is an unrefined antidepressant. Being unrefined, it's harder to be totally dependent on it, something I want to avoid.
I'm kinda rambling. Sorry, it's late. The crux of this ramble, I guess, is that I think too much of the world is asleep, and doing their best to stay that way because being awake is less consistently pleasant. But I also think it's poison, in all senses of the word, and should be used in tight moderation, if at all. A lot of people disagree with me, plenty of people even think I'm quite mad to view things as I do, but I truly do think that life should be experienced, in its purest possibility, pain and joy, as intense as they can get, because you really can't have the good without the bad. Without either, you just float in existence, without really existing.
Without passion, we would be truly dead.

Hmm. I don't disagree, but dead's maybe a little strong a term... None of those people want to die, and it would definitely still matter if they did.

AGENTROUKA

Thursday, August 6, 2009 3:21 PM

Quote:
I personally found it kind of profound the way River asked "Is it time to go to sleep again?" in Ariel, and just looked at Simon rather sadly when he said it was time to wake up.

I'd say this is just your subjective reading of the sene, though.

I never got anything out of this scene that was anti-drug. And as we see later in the series, the drugs actually do help River.

While I don't particularly agree with people who are deeply sceptical of drug use, I don't profoundly disagree with the idea that in some ways we are overmedicated.

I just disagree that Firefly and River in particular are a good example of this, at all.

PHOENIXROSE

Thursday, August 6, 2009 6:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
dead's maybe a little strong a term.

Sorry, I was quoting Angel from the Buffy episode 'Passion.' The first part of the quote is in my current tagline; just seemed fitting.

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
I'd say this is just your subjective reading of the scene, though.

Well, we do all have those. Everyone sees something different.

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
the drugs actually do help River.

Do they? Do they actually help her, or do they just give her brief moments of stability? ("I hate it because I know it'll go away.") Is what actually helps her the drugs, or is it getting the demons out?

[/sig]

BYTEMITE

Thursday, August 6, 2009 6:24 PM

The way I see drugs is that they're a fallback while you work things out.

It seems obvious to me that Miranda can't be River's only demon. She didn't even seem to be aware of Miranda underneath all the other chaos and trauma until the memory was accidentally brought out when she was triggered. I see most of River's behaviour, through the series, as stemming from her trauma endured at the Academy. After all, it's what she has recurring nightmares and psychotic hallucinations about.

I think Simon was trying as best as he could to help River, and it's not that he was intentionally reliant on drugs or that he was just using them on her to control her for his own ease of mind, but that he doesn't really know how else to help her.

I also do think River was more stable, happy, and lucid after Ariel, right up through her triggering in the movie. I think the drugs may have helped her handle her scary monsters, just long enough that the light could shine through now and then. And a few moments of relief/comfort/fun/happiness can be very, very important when you're dealing with post-traumatic stress, because PTSD goes hand-in-hand with depression, and that can lead to suicidal thoughts.

MANGOLO

Thursday, August 6, 2009 6:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Look on the bright side; you could always start a beverage business!

LOL! Manmilk?

AGENTROUKA

Thursday, August 6, 2009 6:42 PM

Quote:

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
the drugs actually do help River.

Do they? Do they actually help her, or do they just give her brief moments of stability? ("I hate it because I know it'll go away.") Is what actually helps her the drugs, or is it getting the demons out?

Well, there would be the question whether you believe it's "demons" messing with her head or the fact that they cut into her brain.

I certainly don't buy for a second that the Miranda secret is the sole reason River's brain is scrambled and that she is anything close to healed then, even if the end of the movie might lead some to that assumption.

I do think that those periods of clarity - even if interrupted ny side-effects and periods of confusion - help River. I certainly consider her MUCH more stable at the end of the series than at the beginning.

ETA: Really, what Bytemite said. She's frustratingly good at saying much, much better what I actually mean. Except for how I don't think that controlling River for his own ease of mind is a big concern for Simon. If anything, he might be trying to control her for both their sake on the ship, considering Mal is less than amused when River makes noise with the cattle on board and suggests gagging her.

BYTEMITE

Thursday, August 6, 2009 6:49 PM

Controlling River is not a big concern for Simon, no. That's what I was trying to say. He is, honestly, trying to help, and he's doing his best. He just doesn't really know how, and that's nothing against him, because this would be a very, very hard case to treat, let alone cure. If that's even possible.

AGENTROUKA

Thursday, August 6, 2009 7:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Controlling River is not a big concern for Simon, no. That's what I was trying to say. He is, honestly, trying to help, and he's doing his best. He just doesn't really know how, and that's nothing against him, because this would be a very, very hard case to treat, let alone cure. If that's even possible.

Yes, true. At this point, he is administering first aid to River. It's like a paramedic trying to deal with a chronically sick and unstable person, limited resources in every way. At this point, he's doing all he can to avoid further damage and provide relief.

If he had all resources at his disposal that research in the 26th century has made available, I'm sure there would be many different avenues of therapy or managing her condition for River, relying in different measures on drugs. These avenues are closed to them both. So he iss doing the best he can.

It kind of irks me to see that effort painted as a damaging, lazy or controlling thing, as if it would be as easy as letting River run free on the pastures and she'll be fine.

BYTEMITE

Thursday, August 6, 2009 7:18 PM

I seem to recall in the episode Safe that Simon had to pull River away from the dirty and sharp post-holers. The way he is with River, how careful he has to be to make sure she doesn't hurt herself in a lapse of cognizance, it speaks a lot about how much attention is necessary to take care of her.

It would be very irresponsible to just let her run wild... Even on Serenity. Plenty of sharp corners, sharp thinks, smuggling holes to get trapped in, maintenance panels with live electricity... etc.

Her treatment has to be a mix of therapy and drugs. I suspect River would outright reject further brain surgery (that Simon, being a trauma surgeon, would not have the training to give her), and for good reason.

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