Iranian Protestors Shot As Obama Goes for Ice Cream

POSTED BY: Skywalken
UPDATED: Tuesday, April 14, 2026 15:19
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KWICKO

Sunday, June 21, 2009 10:26 PM

Quote:

THe thing that pisses me off most is that both sides are using these kids who are protesting in Iran to further their own political agenda. That is BS in the largest sense of the word.

That's politics, ain't it?

As for what the U.S. does, I still say we wait, unless we are ready to FIRMLY commit to one side or the other, with the full realization that doing so will immediately increase the number of deaths and the depths of brutality committed upon the Iranian people, simply by dint of our being involved, or as they so accurately call it (given our historical precedent in the area), our "meddling". Getting involved with either side now is a losing deal. Musavi isn't some magical reformer; he's a conservative evangelical just like Ahmedinejad, just of a slightly different shade.

So, we wait. Wait until there's a winner, wait until there's someone to actually support, and then we extend a conciliatory and friendly handshake to them in the hopes of jump-starting a productive relationship, instead of merely prolonging the tit-for-tat name-calling and brinksmanship we've been engaged in for the last 30 years. We can, at this moment, encourage ALL Iranians to work together, to work things out, to be a part of the global community, but beyond that, we'd be better off sitting back and letting things settle. Of course, if we REALLY wanted to make a difference, we'd offer our "support" to the side we wanted to see lose, because anti-American sentiments still have enough weight in that part of the world to tip the scales firmly in favor of those whose most damning accusation is "America supports him!"

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

CITIZEN

Sunday, June 21, 2009 10:28 PM

I'm not sure the US has any right to start getting involved because another countries electoral process isn't perfect.

HKCAVALIER

Sunday, June 21, 2009 11:16 PM

This is the weirdest conversation. Meddlesome. Yeah, all this talk about "what we should do" is itself utterly meddlesome. When are y'all gonna get it through your skulls that we DON'T run the world.

You know what we should do? We should, in a dignified way, simply apologize and see what comes of it. Own up to our despicable past, just a little--admit we've made some pretty rotten decisions over there. And why don't we go over there, say to Egypt and tell 'em so, straight up. We should do the decent thing and own up to the past, speak to the Muslim world respectfully, maybe quote the Koran, 'cause there is some beautiful stuff in the Koran, maybe give 'em just a LITTLE respect? You know what might happen then? I dunno, maybe some elections over there might go to the progressive candidates this time. Maybe the people living under this or that oppressive regime might be inspired to do something about it.

Oh, wait...I guess that's what our President did before going out for ice cream with his kids. Oh, well, never mind.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

KWICKO

Sunday, June 21, 2009 11:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
I'm not sure the US has any right to start getting involved because another countries electoral process isn't perfect.

Yeah, I'm not sure we'd have liked it too much if the British or the French had tried to come in after our 2000 elections and told us who they supported.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

FREMDFIRMA

Monday, June 22, 2009 1:02 AM

That is kinda the gist of my position on it, HKC, although in much less nice words - let their own people decide what THEY want, even if it involves some ugliness, cause like it or not, where ever politics is, violence soon follows, alas.

And yes, reconciliation and makin up for our past is a good idea, but damn it's difficult with our so-called-ally playing boat anchor to the process, sabotaging it at every turn and screaming bloody murder (as in, screaming FOR the murder of anyone who isn't THEM) all the way...

Me, I am all in favor of lightening the load there, flat out tell Israel they either get with the program, or get cut loose, cause I am damn sick of their genocidal bullshit, especially with our money - and it ain't got a damn thing to do with their race or religion, but their behavior as a nation and political entity.

As for the rest of the middle-east, most of their cultures, especially the pashtun, have very deep rooted cultural aspects revolving around hospitality, truce-making and forgiveness, and if we manage to JUST FREAKIN ONCE actually keep our word, which we have *not* done since about 1260AD or so, we'd be able to parley a decent peace process and an end to the hate.

The only two things in the way are our own alphabet agencies, which are running wild with no end in sight, and will sabotage the process unless Obama comes down on them with a bang, and our so-called-ally and their own jackassery, which we should be plain and public in NOT supporting, up to and including the revocation of foreign aid and military subsidies if they do not quit being total dicks.

Those two key elements are what is missing from the current offer, and why it just plain won't stick until those issues are addressed.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

GRIPPER

Monday, June 22, 2009 1:42 AM

One one hand;I make no bones about considering Obama to be "One Big Assed Mistake,America"...OTOH;I agree with a few others here-WHY would ANYONE tie together two COMPLETELY unrelated events?
I get blood in my eye when families are screwed with -even a guy I do NOT like or trust.
The mullahcracy that runs Iran is pretty close to its "Tienamen Square" moment-whetehr or not it goes anywhere ;who could say?
I DO believe that they should go-not that the new guy is automatically going to be great either.I DO support the idea of supporting freedom.And I DO consider it a bit hypocritical to worry about "meddling "in Iran;while we never lose an opportunity to "meddle"-such as our bi-polar attitude towards Israel.
Lebanaon and Iran are mor ealike than peo;l,e realize-at varying times they had status as"sanctuary" nations that were fairly pluralistic and willing to take in other groups not welcome in the rest of the region.It would be of a lot of interest to me personally to see Iran go secular WITHOUT losingits own sense of history and tradition OR a chance at freedom.

CHRISISALL

Monday, June 22, 2009 1:48 AM

I want HKC for President, and Frem for vice.
THEN something good would be done in this gorram country.

Signy & Rue must have top science advisory positions as well.

Kwicko must be the secretary of the Department To Eradicate Extraneous Bulls**t.

Finn would run the Library Of Congress.

Cit would be our Foreign Relations consultant.

Geezer has to run the ACLU.

Ecgordon needs to run the FCC.

I would straighten out the FDA.

AURaptor would be in charge of Immigration & Naturalization.

Jong would be the head of Public Relations.

6ix could be in charge or our Military.

Have I forgotten any that could serve our country in a positive way? Feel free to nominate others or yourselves.

The laughing Chrisisall

MIKEWILLIAMSON

Monday, June 22, 2009 1:54 AM

Well, ignoring unrelated twitters from twits,

I'm in immigrant and a career military veteran.

The US isn't perfect. It makes a lot of mistakes. That means it's only about 50 times better than anywhere else.

Including my two former homes.

I also think 0bama is an utterly detestable sack of crap.

That makes him only 50 times as good as any other nation's exec.

YMMV

As to Iran, that issue goes back at least to Xenophon's March of the Ten Thousand, about 2400 years ago.

But...

Go take a look at where Iran is on the map.

We control the bases on either side, have strong allies providing free bases up the entire Arabian Gulf (I know. I helped build several of them), and we have brand new airbases in various other 'stans north of it.

You can't believe that was by accident.

Their middle class professionals are largely Western schooled and Western friendly.

Hopefully, it won't get too interesting.

Recent novels by Michael Z. Williamson
CONTACT WITH CHAOS, Apr 09 from Baen Books
BETTER TO BEG FORGIVENESS..., Nov 07 from Baen Books

FREMDFIRMA

Monday, June 22, 2009 10:54 AM

Howdy Mike!

Best don your armor for the dive into RWED, it can get a bit.. rough.

As for Obamalama, I see the POPPA agenda looming behind him, and I don't care for that at all.

Of course, you're more likely to know what I mean by that...

Might not agree with you, guy - since imma unrepentant Kropotkinist-Anarchist, but your perspective is very welcome here, sir.
(yes he rates a "sir" from me, being a baen-published author, shaddap.)

I still think our best bet is to go hands off and just make sure it doesn't spill over the borders, cause it's shaping up to be quite nasty - the best hope of a more moderate leadership evolving is not giving the fanatics any more political ammo by stickin our nose in it.

-Frem

PS, you can plug the prologues here, if like - I happen to be browsing the sample blurb for CwC even now.

JONGSSTRAW

Monday, June 22, 2009 11:10 AM

Even the mighty Obama can't do anything in this situation beyond what he's already said. The more we "support" the protesters, the more the hard-liners will be encouraged to crush them. The only hope they have is for their own police and military to turn against the Ayatollahs. This should be an interesting week.

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