Torture at Guantanamo to extract false confessions and justify invading Iraq

POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Thursday, June 5, 2025 14:11
VIEWED: 2043
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AURAPTOR

Thursday, April 30, 2009 1:00 PM

Quote:

We interrogated to make sure we could invade Iraq

Sig, you probably believe there was a shooter in the grassy knoll, we faked the moon landings, the loch ness monster, and anyone who told you " I'll call you " after a one night stand.

SIGNYM

Thursday, April 30, 2009 1:13 PM

Quote:
Sig, you probably believe there was a shooter in the grassy knoll, we faked the moon landings, the loch ness monster, and anyone who told you " I'll call you " after a one night stand.

Ooooooh. Was THAT your counter-argument?

I'm referring to the MEDICAL OFFICER"S statement. He was there, he spoke at length about the pressure Cheney put them under to find a connection between Saddam and al Qaida, and if anyone knows it would be him NOT YOU. But I'm sure you'll ignore it 'cause I know, sure as anything, that you'll slide out of this thread only to reappear elsewhere toting and promoting the same load of crap that you can't seem to let go.

You think you own that sack of shit, rappy, but yanno what? It owns you. You're wrong. Let it go.

----------------------
We should have strapped him into a glider, filled it nose heavy w/ explosives, and dropped his Allah lovin' ass into a large, empty field. After which, release wild boars into the area so they could make good use of his remains. Now THAT's justice.- rappy

Yeah, that's what Sheikh Issa said. Seems you both have a lot in common.- signy

CHRISISALL

Thursday, April 30, 2009 1:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
We interrogate to make sure we don't have another 9/11 style attack. And it's worked.

Bullshit, AU.
Prove it. What are the circumstances, who was apprehended & tried? What was the target? What were the weapons?
As usual, YOU have no case, just hearsay that you like to believe in & repeat.

The laughing Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Thursday, April 30, 2009 1:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Terrorism is a relatively recent phenomenon,

?
???

Jong, please wait for the hallucinogen to wear off before posting, please.

The laughing Chrisisall

KWICKO

Thursday, April 30, 2009 1:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
That's such a load of crap, and completely worthless to the friends and family of those who died on 9/11. We interrogate to make sure we don't have another 9/11 style attack. And it's worked. Where some have gotten out of hand, taken things too far, we punish and throw in jail. When's the last time anyone in al Qaeda or like groups had to punish one of their own for improperly slicing up one of THEIR captives? You think they have a lawyer and a team of doctors on site, watching every damn move, making sure no lines get crossed ? For you to suggest that we're no better than them is a true sign of just how utterly deluded and disconnected w/ the real world you really are.

Talk about a load of crap. What else could we expect from someone called AwwCraptor, though?

I could just as easily claim that we elected Bill Clinton to stop a 9/11-style attack, and it worked. We never had the attacks on 9/11/01 while Bill Clinton was in office, so that proves that him being President kept 9/11 from happening as long as he was in office. Conversely, Dubya being in office CAUSED 9/11 to happen. Proof? It never happened BEFORE he was in office!

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc. "After this, therefore because of this." It's a logical fallacy.

My, you ARE dumb.

Quote:

And of course you forgot about FREEDOM, when it comes to what makes this country so great. Sure, there are rules, there is the law, but there's also the freedom which draws people to here from all across the globe.

The FREEDOM to torture? Is that what you love? I think it is...

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

KWICKO

Thursday, April 30, 2009 2:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I'd like to read a report someday of how we tried extreme kindness and thoughtful conversation to convert a terrorist back to humanity. All captured fighters on any side are already going to be somewhat scared shitless by the unkown factor of what their captors are going to do to them. If you grab them, strip them, humiliate them, sic growling dogs on them, play ridiculous stress position games with them, and then even waterbaord them, what the hell do ya think yer gonna get out of all that? Just one more-hardened fanatic who now has a real and tangible reason to want to kill you. Imagine the surprise and shock that same person might feel if they were treated with real respect, generosity, and human dignity. Over a short time, it's possible this former monster could be changed to the good, and work with us to fight his former allies.

I once saw a program on History Channel about the Waffen SS. The SS in general has quite a vile and horrendous legacy of their actions during WWII, however not all of the SS were sadistic murderers. There was a story told by a British officer who told how his regiment was pinned down and then overrun by SS soldiers. When captured the SS General told the Brits "that for them the war was over." The British officer said that the SS troops could have shot them all on the battlefield under the rules of war, and they were stunned by the respect and dignity that the SS showed them.

Yup, exactly so. Your enemy EXPECTS you to torture and abuse them; doing so only validates their hatred. Treating them with dignity and respect makes them re-think their hatred of you, and often gets them wondering what all the fuss is about in the first place.

My family heritage is German. As far back as anyone has traced it (over 7 generations that I know of), all my ancestors came here from Germany and Prussia. The ones who came to America settled in Nebraska, in a town that is overwhelmingly German in its heritage and population. For some reason, the U.S. government decided to put a POW camp outside the town during WWII. There were lots of German prisoners there. My mother and father told me that when they were children, their families would go out to the camp to visit the German soldiers, take them bread and fresh food, homemade wine and beer, and stuff like that. They would talk through the fence, talking about who was from where, who knew whose family, etc.

After the war ended, many of the POWs stayed there. They'd been treated so well - so much differently than they'd EXPECTED to be treated - that they felt almost at home, and wanted to live here because we'd been so good to them. Some returned to Germany, looked at the ruins and desolation, grabbed what family they could, and came back to America.

THAT is what freedom is about, and THAT is why we shouldn't torture.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

CHRISISALL

Thursday, April 30, 2009 2:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Terrorism is a relatively recent phenomenon,
?
???

Jong, please wait for the hallucinogen to wear off before posting, please.

In a less whimsical response, since Jongstraw did not get my point:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_terrorism

Quote:
Sicarii Zealots (1st century CE)

Not that new, dude.

The laughing Chrisisall

KWICKO

Thursday, April 30, 2009 2:58 PM

Wasn't the Boston Tea Party basically a terrorist attack on the British Crown?

And didn't we wage a terrorist guerilla war against that same Crown?

One person's terrorist is another person's patriot...

FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, April 30, 2009 3:01 PM

Quote:
With our support, they could play an influential role in reversing the stream of Muslims into terrorism.

I remember having that conversation with ya, way back when, Jong...

As it stands, too many nutters like Rappy pissing in the pond and undoing any attempt to reconcile, cause one misplaced artillery shell can instantly undo even years of positive influence - a father cradling a mangled child isn't exactly the most forgiving of folk, you understand...

That said, some of us ARE trying to make a positive impact by empowering and educating the women over there, cause muchlike a battered wife here, first they gotta build the self-reliance and confidence to make a stand in the first place, which is what RAWA is trying to do.

I just wish to hell we hadn't lost two of the best english translators among them due to american bombs and "collateral damage" - I've been feeding them office and photographic equipment as fast as I can get my hands on it.
http://www.rawa.org/
http://www.rawa.org/help.htm

I have a very beautiful hand sketched poster on my office back wall which is a more filled out version of this image.

And every time I look at it I cannot help but be reminded that the lady who gave it to me was killed by one of our bombs, a testament to the futility and stupidity of our approach to the whole matter.

-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

JONGSSTRAW

Thursday, April 30, 2009 7:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Quote:
With our support, they could play an influential role in reversing the stream of Muslims into terrorism.

I remember having that conversation with ya, way back when, Jong...

As it stands, too many nutters like Rappy pissing in the pond and undoing any attempt to reconcile, cause one misplaced artillery shell can instantly undo even years of positive influence - a father cradling a mangled child isn't exactly the most forgiving of folk, you understand...

That said, some of us ARE trying to make a positive impact by empowering and educating the women over there, cause muchlike a battered wife here, first they gotta build the self-reliance and confidence to make a stand in the first place, which is what RAWA is trying to do.

I just wish to hell we hadn't lost two of the best english translators among them due to american bombs and "collateral damage" - I've been feeding them office and photographic equipment as fast as I can get my hands on it.
http://www.rawa.org/
http://www.rawa.org/help.htm

I do not recall that conversation you refer to, but I do know that in years past I had a different opinion of this subject.

I am not a Metron yet

but I have evolved past this

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