Fanfic Inara - anti-feminist?

POSTED BY: AgentRouka
UPDATED: Tuesday, January 6, 2009 12:10
VIEWED: 13612
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AGENTROUKA

Sunday, January 4, 2009 8:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Whoops, sorry. I'm just used to the sanctity of choice and freedom being a very American perspective. It's not a wrong one, but it's been my observation that sometimes people are left to flounder, too.

I do not disagree with that. :) Many aspect of life in Eastern Germany, while partly taking away choice, guaranteed a greater quality of daily life and many people now miss this. I prefer the amount of choice available to me, even though I see a lot of potential for improvement in Unified Germany today. In particular the school system. Do not get me started.

BYTEMITE

Sunday, January 4, 2009 8:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:

Okay, granted, it's not definitely said, but it is fairly likely.

There I turn the tables on you and say that there is nothing to suggest that she had to end up where she did, nor that the shunning would have had any influence outside of the actual Companion circle. I even doubt the shunning was related to her choice to leave but entirely to her manner of doing so. (Temper trantrum extraordinaire.)

But even if your theory about occupational choices for the general Core applied, it would definitely NOT apply to the Guild, because it is entirely separate from the government, as an institution, with implied religious undertones. The exclusivity is emphasized a lot and forcing little girls to become prostitutes would hardly be in the official spirit of the Alliance nor of the Guild (a Companion chooses her own clients probably includes the choice not to have any.)

I feel I have to completely reject this theory. It's sexual slavery and Inara would be smart enough to condemn this. To assume she wouldn't paints her as a brainless victim.

Your takes on Nandi and Simon are possible, and I can't really argue them.

In my view of the Alliance, Simon WANTED to be a doctor, River WANTED to go into that fateful program. Inara would want to be a companion, they'd get her all excited about the opportunity and she'd be told that she'd be perfect for it. And hey, it'd probably be true. Her character seems like a person who enjoys helping and nurturing people. It's still manipulation.

Even smart people believe propaganda. Especially if they're raised with it and never given any reason to question it. Kids generally don't have a reason. I was VERY patriotic when I was 12... Embarrassingly so.

Guild may be separate from the government, but I'm sure the government could recommend new potential candidates. Blue Sun is separate from the government too, but somehow an Operative of Parliament was sent after River Tam when she escaped. Just how separate are they? Hard to know.

MAL4PREZ

Sunday, January 4, 2009 8:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
You're assuming I'm assuming the Alliance is evil for making people's choices for them. That's our western cultural bias at work.

No. I think you're assuming that the Alliance makes choices for people. We have no proof of that.

Whether forced choices would be evil is a separate question, perhaps one left for RWED.

In regards to Inara joining the Guild: I see it like little girls pushed into taking ballet. To have any chance to be a career ballet dancer, they have to start when they're too young to really understand what they're getting into. Of course, a great number get burnt out, or aren't good enough, and quit. But they always have that choice, to do something else.

Of course, the Soviet ballet was so incredibly good because very young children were chosen based on their physique, and quitting or failing meant giving up a damned good life to live in squalor. There certainly was less freedom in that.

But I don't get that kind of vibe out of the Guild. Everything I've heard from Joss seems to point at the Guild being a positive thing, a spiritual entity more than a business.

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I know a lot of people in America who feel like they lead empty lives, and think somehow ROMANCE will save them from that. Yikes. That's just a relationship disaster waiting to happen.

***Sympathetic groan*** This is so true, and one of the ridiculous things about Disney. The Little Mermaid's "Kiss of True Love" just horrifies me! Get the Kiss and you'll be saved forever, they say. I always want to shout out: no, you'll end up pregnant and abandoned at a very young age, or married to a man you don't actually like! Don't do it until you figure out what this guy is really like!!

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So no, I don't think the Alliance is evil for choosing for it's people... But I can see them doing it. I feel my conclusion could be a valid one, even if it's an illogical one based only on scraps of evidence, the themes of the show, and what I know of communist states like China. Not necessarily TRUE, we'd need more information, but a valid one.

OK, this I can go with. Even if there's no hard evidence for it, and I'd considered any fic that went here to be treading a bit outside canon, it'd be an interesting issue to explore. This, I think, is leaving canon in a good way. As opposed to the usual romantic silliness LOL!

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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

AGENTROUKA

Sunday, January 4, 2009 9:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:

Yeah, I think the anti-feminist thing is a logical reaction to the post-feminist movement pressure: --(*snip*, AR)-- Makes sense that the newer generation would want to buck that a bit.

Good point. Understanding it doesn't make it less scary, though.

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I do also think she's had some boyfriends. But they must always have been aware what she was, kind of like a movie star or super model never knowing if her date likes her or her aura of greatness. She’d still alawys be Inara the Companion around them.

Maybe, maybe not.

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But, since we know nothing, this is certainly an area open to lots of speculation.

I like it like that. :) I just wish more people would speculate in my preferred direction. *finger wriggle*

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I see bedroom problems for Simon and Kaylee. I really just don't see them getting it right the first time, given how young and different they are. Mal and Inara though... I see it working. Because they're older? Or... maybe just because I'm more of a fluff romantic about them? Probably LOL!

Possibly.

I agree about the cultural problems between Simon and Kaylee. Pretty much just an extension of the out-of-bedroom problems. Their cuddly couch scene in "Objects in Space" gives me hope for them, though. It could be unbearably awesome, with the giggles!

Mal and Inara... I do NOT think it would be bad between them, that is unlikely, simply because they are very reactive to one another and sex leaves less room for insecure misinterpretations. Watch the wordless communication over Nandi's body or in the shuttle in "Out of Gas". They are attuned!

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Whoa - good point! Men tend to feel all pressured to please their women. For a man who hasn't been in bed much lately to find himself with a very experienced Companion... that's got to undermine even Mal's complacency!

That's where, I think, Mal's forceful personality and slight puritanical tendencies would be a bonus. I don't think he has feelings of sexual inadequacy worth mentioning because being a sex god is not his priority. Emotional inadequacy may plague him more. Plus, he's probably way more of a romantic about sex than Inara, with regards to the "true love = good sex" thing, heh.

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I guess I have a hard time believing that anyone accept a relationship where their partner, male or female, is regularly having sex with a multitude of others. It could be my own social training I can’t overcome, especially in the age of AIDS and such. It just seems so dangerous and scary and wrong!

Well, considering Inara is a professional, STD's aren't likely an issue, and the scenario would be quite different from cheating, or even a coerced "open marriage". It's her job, her profession, it has strong undertones of therapy and is it quite integral to Inara's identity. It's not sexual infidelity for the sake of pleasure or to avoid committment, and in this case I think it can be assumed that the sexual aspect of her job would be rather more clinical to her. Quite separate from her relationship.

There's this lovely fic I read at ff.net once that examines this... lemme see if I can find it. There:
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4117565/1/Countdown

I find it very admirable that you're at least considering the scenario, anyway. :)

BYTEMITE

Sunday, January 4, 2009 9:44 PM

Yeah, I don't have much proof. I guess what makes me most think it's possible is Miranda. Alliance did choose the air the people breathed, all in an effort to make the population more compliant. Makes me think they might make other choices for people too.

But now I suddenly want to do a fic about Inara acting as an empowered agent of the guild to right some wrong or another... Hmm.

Well, even big organizations aren't always evil. I'm smart enough to know that, at least. It's only aspects sometimes that are.

AGENTROUKA

Sunday, January 4, 2009 9:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:

Guild may be separate from the government, but I'm sure the government could recommend new potential candidates. Blue Sun is separate from the government too, but somehow an Operative of Parliament was sent after River Tam when she escaped. Just how separate are they? Hard to know.

This is really the only issue where we are miles apart.

The Blue Sun/government ties are complex, but I think we should be able to agree that the Guild and Blue Sun are vastly different animals.

One is a corporation with two goals: money and power, and possibly run by people whose "Make a better world, all of them better worlds" philosophy ties them closely to certain elements high up in government. Blue Sun may be a contractor to the government, we don't know the exact nature.

But the Guild.. Inara emphasises again and again the ethical and spiritual values, rituals, religious terminology. It seems to me, in its nature, far closer to a religious institution than a commercial one, with values separate from those of the Alliance as a whole and with a great deal of money and power. The idea that the Alliance would have a particular interest in recommending students for a profession that would take them further away from the influence of the Alliance, inside an independent body... doesn't want to work for me. The Alliance also doesn't profit from the Guild outside of what may be taxes. They are a luxury item, cannot be used as a healthcare benefit for the masses. Plus, being a Companion is so glamorous, why would the Guild need recommendations. I bet they receive applications in great numbers and have a rigorous selection process.

It's, I think, like a private dance school in a communist state. Except with therapeutic prostitution. I do not think the state would bother wasting resources selecting for them, just like they wouldn't select priests for churches. If there is a selection process state-side, I'm sure that something like "therapist" might encourage some parents to let their child apply, but it would not be referred by the state.

Creating a connection between these two just feel incredibly wrong to me. I really do not think that the Alliance would touch sexual professions with a ten foot pole, in terms of referring children to their education. It's too personal a choice.

BYTEMITE

Sunday, January 4, 2009 11:06 PM

I do like the idea of the Guild as an almost religious organization. In past history, women have really been empowered when seen as priestesses like hierodules and the like. It'd be interesting to explore.

But by historical definition, a guild is a commercial enterprise.

This is a big if, but IF the Alliance government is like the Chinese government, then they have may control over corporations like Blue Sun and the guild.

Or rather... Big corporations may have control over THEM. This is futuristic America we're talking about here, combined with China.

In China, the government carefully selects dancers, singers, etc. so that they look good to the outside world. Look at everything we heard about during the Olympics. Russia might not have bothered, might have let families and trainers choose which daughters/sons would enter into training, but in China, they control that a lot.

Companions are glamourous examples of everything that's good, enlightened, liberated, wise, and beautiful about the Alliance. I think they'd be careful about just who can become a companion, and I suspect it's a very selective process.

KPO

Monday, January 5, 2009 2:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
I don't think Inara would be in a position to consider giving up her work before Mal ever accepts it, accepts loving her in spite of it.

It's hard to see Mal changing in this respect... You see this as a shortcoming in his character though, that he wants to have Inara all to himself - or is unwilling to make that sacrifice?

But could you date/marry a male companion (I imagine one as like a male escort..?) and accept it?

Jealousy and romantic love possessiveness are very human, and I don't think as traits in Mal make him any less lovable (simple, earthy guy that he is) as far as Inara would be concerned... though it does make things difficult for her.

Also, can you be married and be a companion? I just wonder if some companion women sign up with the expectation that they will retire and settle down when they're ready, or find the right partner - after all they can only work up to a certain age anyway. So the change would be more natural for Inara than mal. And from here on, I don't expect that Inara would renounce her old ways - and I do expect that mal would become more accepting of them... perhaps realising how lucky he is...

Heads should roll

BYTEMITE

Monday, January 5, 2009 7:38 AM

I wonder about age limitations. Sure, lots of men like their women young, but what about the older men who want someone who looks more their age, or who has the same sort of maturity? I guess companions make a lot of money, but would they really retire early when they might still have a client base?

Reading over the list again for anything else that caught my eye. Trying to see if I could come up with unoffensive versions of those scenarios that would empower Inara.

The kicked out of the guild thing... That's generally used as a precursor to a relationship with Mal, and both end up unrealistically happy about it.

That's a load.

I'm pretty sure both Mal and Inara would fight tooth and nail (in their own different ways) to get Inara her job back. Let alone the rest of the crew...

I think that's a fic I'd like to read. And have the unexpected ending: they're successful about it! Inara gets her job back and we see a whole lot of interesting characterizations and revelations that would probably be truer to the characters than the alternative.

Course, for it to really be feminist, the emphasis would have to be on the crew helping, not just Mal coming to save the day. I can particularly see little Kaylee and River shining in this scenario, and Inara too, standing up for herself.

AGENTROUKA

Monday, January 5, 2009 7:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
I don't think Inara would be in a position to consider giving up her work before Mal ever accepts it, accepts loving her in spite of it.

It's hard to see Mal changing in this respect... You see this as a shortcoming in his character though, that he wants to have Inara all to himself - or is unwilling to make that sacrifice?

Not per se, but it is a flaw in a person who wants to be in a relationship with Inara. Especially, if that person has done nothing but belittle and denounce her career since they met.

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But could you date/marry a male companion (I imagine one as like a male escort..?) and accept it?

Luckily, I haven't been in the position. It is a fairly unusual one. I couldn't say. I am also not Mal. I'm not trying to praise this as a universal mode for all relationships, but as a very particular and perhaps temporary aspect of their relationship.

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Jealousy and romantic love possessiveness are very human, and I don't think as traits in Mal make him any less lovable (simple, earthy guy that he is) as far as Inara would be concerned... though it does make things difficult for her.

I am not denouncing Mal for feeling these things. I do criticize that he his making it Inara's problem by taking out his frustration on her. I think his absolute and often derrogatory rejection of her job - and we haven't REALLY seen him retract from that - is a form of disrespect for her, and for her choices. And an acceptance of her profession in the light of her dropping it or having dropped it would be pretty hollow. I don't think these two could work unless Mal goes through some actual and intense examination and appreciation of what Inara does and what it means to her. One way, the one I think is most practicable, is to accept her working while they are together.

Quote:

Also, can you be married and be a companion? I just wonder if some companion women sign up with the expectation that they will retire and settle down when they're ready, or find the right partner - after all they can only work up to a certain age anyway. So the change would be more natural for Inara than mal. And from here on, I don't expect that Inara would renounce her old ways - and I do expect that mal would become more accepting of them... perhaps realising how lucky he is...

There is no suggestion that Companions cannot marry. It may or may not be rare, but who knows?

As for retiring, it is somewhat beside the point because Inara is not really near the age where she would need to retire, or where Companions generally would, I think. It's like asking a supermodel to retire in the middle of her career even though they have a ten to fifteen years of beauty well ahead of them. It's always going to be a dramatic sacrifice.

As for Mal becoming more accepting.. well, that's easy once it doesn't cost him anything, right? I don't see this meaning much of anything and I think it could easily create a rift between the two of them, Inara feeling resentment for having given up something that Mal always claimed she is better off not doing, anyway.

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