Starship Troopers III

POSTED BY: Tankobite
UPDATED: Monday, June 15, 2026 16:12
VIEWED: 12379
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STARTROOP

Friday, February 29, 2008 12:06 AM

Before anyone pulls out the flame throwers, why don't we start at something simple, like defining Fascism???

This is an emotion laden word that has little meaning anymore because when anyone wants to insult something that is vaguely like central control in it, they label it Fascism. If you don't believe me, just google it or look it up on Wiki. It has a dozen different definitions that contradict and almost all the sources agree that it has become sematically void and an insult, like calling someone a son of a b*tch. You normally don't mean the individual is a dog or that their mother was, you just don't like them.

It was funny in a sick way in the Cold War was when American politicians were calling Communists Fascists even though they (Communists and Fascist) were deadly enemies and their idealogies was politically and philosphically polar. The fact that the end results were very similar is a sad commentary on the results usually garnered by fanatics of either stripe.

Before we get our underware all bunched up, let's start by recasting this argument without that word.

How about saying what particular portions of the idealogy and goverment system portrayed in the book that you don't like, or don't believe in and why?

You want to get people to put away the flame throwers? Start in your own house and don't take them out in the first place. Replace Fascism and Fascist with some precise terms that actually describe what you don't like and what bothers you about the book.

See, no flame throwers and only one swear word ;-).

BTW I do like the book Redliners. It is well written. Again though, be specific, the world that Mr. Drake forecasts may or may not come true> I sincerly hope it doesn't. He does talk about some interesting concepts. Several only a combat soldier would know. He was one in Vietnam.

KIRKULES

Friday, February 29, 2008 12:10 AM

I love the book and the movie. It makes me smile or laugh every time I see Jake Busey's face.

STEGASAURUS

Friday, February 29, 2008 12:12 AM

Although I have to say that the CGI animated series was a little more in-line with the book. Ok, ok, I am using the term "in-line" very loosely and tongue-in-cheek. They at least introduced "The Skinnies" in it. But most of the rest of the story was taken directly from the movie.

I didn't mind the movie or the series too much, but it never compaired to the book.

TANKOBITE

Friday, February 29, 2008 1:33 AM

Well, actually Starship Troopers was written in 1959, but originally appeared as part of a serial in a Boy Scout magazine.

What I'd heard (from here http://www.kentaurus.com/troopers.htm#book) is that originally it was supposed to be a movie called "Bug Hunt" but they noticed the similarities between that and Starship Troopersand decided to see if the rights were open.

Quote:
So, it's clear I don't think a lot of Paul Verhoeven's Starship Troopers as a movie rendition of Heinlein's classic. Let's assume for a minute, though, that Neumeier and Davison's original assumption -- that the movie rights to Heinlein's book were not available -- was correct and they went with their original idea, a project called Bug Hunt. Assuming no relationship with Starship Troopers, was Paul Verhoeven's Starship Troopers a movie worth seeing?

Though that might be sarcasm, but it sounds likely; considering how different the movie is.

I wouldn't take that fort part as being strictly from Armour because I saw that and thought it was an imitation of Zulu (also pissed me off, I loved that movie too-"All right then, nobody told you to stop working!")

-----------------------------------------------------------
There's a widow in sleepy Chester
Who weeps for her only son;
There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
A grave that the Burmans shun;
And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
Who tells how the work was done.

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, February 29, 2008 2:11 AM

Ah.

Startroop, I was using the word in a neutral-descriptive connotation, rather than an emotionally laden bash, sorry if that was not clear, it was a simple system-description, as the closest thing appropriate to the social structure and was not whatever intended to comment on the morality of the system itself, which is why I added the comment about it being morally different from previously known governments run that way - and I did point out that a lot of flameage from reviewers and commentators would result regardless.

It's just that the whole service to state above all concept has repeatedly failed every single time it's been historically tried, so there's no logical reason to accept that it would work for real, especially with the real difficulties of operating a system that by it's very existence creates a hostile underclass which would effectively prevent it from running efficiently - although Heinlen paints it well enough to effectively suspend disbelief so that his story plays out well on the pages, just not sure that would carry over so well to the screen without some serious editing.

Sorry bout that, didn't know the word was so "hot" it couldn't be used in a descriptive-only context anymore.

If you got a better description in less than a paragraph for that social system, by all means share it, I might not have agreed with his structuring, but he did make some decent points in there which are worth lookin at regardless.

Yah, Redliners was pretty good, a bit harsh, but good - but I don't think either one of us would much care to live in the worlds presented by either book, not nice places at all, nope.

But it's a pretty good book in a similar context, minus much of the social commentary, I felt a strong affinity for Al-Ibrahimi, as I know what it's like to be that kind of bastard, and too old to do it anymore.

-F

PS - The flamethrowers comment was for folks who thought I was saying the story sucked - which it doesn't, sorry if that wasn't clear either.

JOSSISAGOD

Friday, February 29, 2008 2:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Stone me if ya want, but I'll get it- but then, I never read the novel...

Citizen Chrisisall

I read the novel, and saw both of the first two movies. The first while not really in line with the novel was AMAZING! The second was the worst piece of crap I've EVER seen. It looks to me like the third will be more along the lines of the first movie, with the exception that Rico will FINALLY get to say "On the bounce."

Fe'nos Tol
JOSSIS(Most Definitely)AGOD

Self appointed Forsaken! Been on the list for a while now!

98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature.
"Look at me, I'm STUPID!" The Doctor.

AVENGINGWATCHER

Friday, February 29, 2008 4:29 AM

Ahhh I saw the movie first and thought it was a good action flick then I read the book and went...WTF, how could they take a thought provoking book and turn it into that...oh right boobies... Take them separately and you can stand it trying to piece them together is just ludicrous.

As an aside, anyone else notice that the fed in "the train job" are wearing the same armor as ST?

When there are no heroes where will we turn?

TANKOBITE

Friday, February 29, 2008 4:47 AM

Yeah, says on the wiki that Firefly borrowed them and repainted 'em.

-----------------------------------------------------------
There's a widow in sleepy Chester
Who weeps for her only son;
There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
A grave that the Burmans shun;
And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
Who tells how the work was done.

STEGASAURUS

Friday, February 29, 2008 7:10 PM

They also wore the same armor in one of the Power Ranger series. I was never a big fan of Power Rangers, but when I was channel flipping, I saw the armor and stopped to take a second look. It was the series where they were in a city on some sort of space platform I believe. I don't even think they repainted them or anything.

Obviously it was a good design, as they keep popping up all over the place.

TANKOBITE

Friday, February 29, 2008 7:26 PM

I knew I wasn't crazy! I was flipping channels once and saw people dressed like that and it confused the crap out of me.

-----------------------------------------------------------
There's a widow in sleepy Chester
Who weeps for her only son;
There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
A grave that the Burmans shun;
And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
Who tells how the work was done.

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