Star Trek II should have been a direct sequel to TMP

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Thursday, March 6, 2008 04:16
VIEWED: 6430
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IMNOTHERE

Friday, February 22, 2008 1:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dataless:
ST:TMP was an hour long episode that we already saw (the Changeling) with an hour long of the ship flying by.

My impression was that they were deliberately trying to imitate the slow-moving style of "2001 - A Space Odessey"...

CHRISISALL

Friday, February 22, 2008 2:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:
I have always felt The Search for Spock was way underrated.

Same here. Nimoy is a great director.

Live long and Chrisisall

CREVANREAVER

Saturday, February 23, 2008 1:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Then how do you explain the really bad science?

Simple...It's science fiction.

The following is from a review of The Chronicles of Riddick that was posted on DarkHorizons.com in 2004:

Quote:
The thing about sci-fi is that many people mistake it for a genre which it isn't exactly. Science Fiction, like period pieces or animation, determines the setting of a story - the tone of it however can be anything like an emotional drama, poitical thriller, action epic, slapstick comedy, murder mystery, horror suspense, and so on. The best sci-fi out there manages to use its setting to its advantage to beef up an already strong idea for a story. That's why the best 'sci-fi' out there are the likes of the family drama/civil rebellion action of the original "Star Wars" trilogy, the jungle assassin thriller "Predator", the political action- dramas of the "Star Trek"/"Babylon 5" universe, the elaborate techno-twisting tales of "Doctor Who", the conspiracy-fueled investigative drama of "The X-Files" or the stalker horror or war movie antics of the first two "Alien" movies. These are strong character-driven complexly plotted dramas who just happen to use space, planets and/or aliens as part of their setting.

Bad sci-fi on the other hand becomes so caught up in exploring all the minute details of the mythology that it forgets that strong characters and clever stories are far more important than the look of the alien creatures or worlds the film is filled with.

Scientifc accuracy be dammed, TWOK was good sci-fi. It had all the positives...strong characters, clever story, etc.

CHRISISALL

Saturday, February 23, 2008 1:39 AM

...shields failing...hull buckling...

Abandon shipisall

SIMONWHO

Saturday, February 23, 2008 1:54 AM

Aw. It's not that we don't love ST:TMP, it's just we wouldn't want to lose our precious wrath.

And besides:

KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNN

CHRISISALL

Saturday, February 23, 2008 2:04 AM

...lost integrity...

OKAY OKAY YOU PEEPS WIN!!!

But TMP is STILL MY favourite big screen Trek.
Followed by Undiscovered Country (Excellent Director AND writer(s)).
But I was there for all of them (Yes, even STV).

:vulcan laughing emoticon:Chrisisall

IMNOTHERE

Saturday, February 23, 2008 2:11 PM

Quote:

KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNN

Why do people give the immortal Shat so much grief over this particular bit of scenery munching?

Remember what's happening at this point in the film: Kirk knows that, thanks to his fiendishly cunning coded message, the Enterprise is coming back for him, yet he doesn't want Khan to know that. Hence he must convey, in one word, all the fear and anger of a man abandoned to a fate worse than death (followed by death)... but heck, he's a starship captain, not an actor!

So, this is not the Shat artlessly hamming it up: this is the Shat's marsterful* and nuanced portrayal of James T Kirk shamelessly hamming it up! The man is a genius - not only should they have given him an Oscar, but they should have let him open the ceremony with his brilliant and misunderstood rendering of "Lucy in the sky with diamonds".

*"marsterful" was originally a typo but I then decided it actually meant "Every bit as good as Dick Van Spike's English accent".

Oh, PS:

FREMDFIRMA

Saturday, February 23, 2008 7:06 PM

Actually I thought it a fine bit of character acting myself, always have.

Kirk (the character) is rather obnoxiously arrogant, vain, and occasionally quick tempered...
And one of the best damn starship captains there ever was, one reason he tends to get away with it.

Khan is rather obnoxiously arrogant too, vain in his own way, and not quite as quick tempered, but it's there, and a very dangerous man in his own right.

So these two are a lot alike and probably share more than a few common interests (like womanising for example) as well as some common history, and both are accustomed to being on giving end of a butt kicking rather than the recieving end.

Very prideful men, the both of them, and barring a few minor nitpicks like an attempted hijacking, might have otherwise wound up the very best of friends, and some of that mutual thing is in there, the whole movie, every dialogue you see that they are enemies by circumstance who might have otherwise been comrades, it shows.

The enemies you hate the very worst are those you empathise with, whom you'd rather share a drink with than an exchange of phasor fire, people who in spite of who and what they are, you cannot help caring about because you see so much of yourself within them.

So Khan tried to put one over on Kirk, and failed, which was a pretty hefty blow to his pride, and having been kicked when he was down, he kinda holds a grudge about it.

So he puts one over on Kirk, hard, and returns the favor with every intent to maroon his ass forever - and were it not for some quick thinking on behalf of Kirk and his first officer, might have gotten away with it.

AND Kirk knows his own stupidity and arrogance by disregarding regulations as is his habit, a habit Khan COUNTED on, led him to this disaster.

And then, Khan has the unrepentant GALL to mock him, and do so from range, over the com where Kirk can't get his hands around the bastards neck.

To say Kirk was pissed would be the understatement of a century, of all the trials, troubles and foes that Kirk ever faced, only Khan managed to kick him square in the balls, and not only get away with it, but cruise away laughing about it as Kirk stood powerless to prevent it.

He REALLY wanted a piece of Khan's hide.

It was absolutely in character, and to be honest, I think WOK was Shatners finest moment as an actor, the chemistry between him and Ricardo Montalbahn was incredible.

Also, no one ever seems to give enough credit to WOK's awesome, awesome soundtrack, especially when it backs the scene following the initial engagement as Reliant sheers past Enterprise by a couple hundred yards, one of the all-time "Holy crap!" moments of Cinema.

Never liked most Trek, just too clean, too perfect, not gritty enough - but I did love WOK, oh yes.

-F

SIMONWHO

Saturday, February 23, 2008 7:07 PM

No grief intended, it's the best bit of the movie. Indeed, ST2 has most of Shatner's best acting work, especially the final scenes with Spock.

I like the idea of Shatner opening the Oscars, especially after his last big award appearence:

LORDVELOS

Saturday, February 23, 2008 10:50 PM

I myself think The Wraith of Khan was and still is the best Trek movie ever!

Yes there were a few plot holes in it like the orbit of Ceti-Alpha 5 and 6. And yes it was very strange to see all of Khans loyal subject in the TV series who were dark skinned and dark hair suddenly become Swedish with blonde hair. But hey I can live with that.

But over all it was more like an original Star Trek episode full of action and I believe that is why I enjoy it the best out of them all.

As for Star Trek The Motion Picture. Well its to my understanding that ST:TMP was created out of the fall out so to speak of a failed renew of Star Trek the TV series that was supposed to be called Star Trek 2

Star Trek 2 never made it on the TV screen. Not one episode was ever shown. Someone killed the show before it ever aired. So they took all the footage of the failed StarTrek 2 and smashed it together to make Star Trek The Motion Picture.

The reason why you see all these boring and crazy visual effects in ST:TMP is because they had to create TIME and fill in space so to speak to even make it movie length. There is like a good 30-40 mintues of crazy visual color effects showing how they get inside the V-ger cloud alone.

Most TV executives sadly HATE Sci-Fi shows. The few Sci-Fi shows that do make it play more like a television drama set in a sci-fi setting. I LOVE the new BattleStar Galatica 2004, but really if you look it the show its more about the drama than anythign else. I have asked people who HATE sci-fi to watch BSG 2004 and they are now hooked on it! Same goes with X-Files, but some would say X-Files is not Sci-Fi so much as it might be labeled supernatural thiller/murder mystry.

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