Sworn To Protect Dobson?

POSTED BY: Jongsstraw
UPDATED: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 02:12
VIEWED: 4079
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NEWBROWNCOAT

Monday, October 8, 2007 7:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:
Originally posted by lwaves:
I think the line where he says that he swore to protect Dobson would apply to anyone, and he wouldn't want to let anyone die whilst he was around.

Many here agree with you on this....but what about in War Stories or Heart of Gold?.....Book was right there witnessing the BDH's killing people. Even though Book didn't kill anyone, there were people getting killed around him.
I still gotta go with the fact that Dobson was Alliance, and Book was "sworn" to protect him...meaning Book "once" was Alliance.

Could be that the answer to his self-questioning "and I'm not even sure if I think he was wrong" was enough to modify the code he had about allowing killing to go on in his presence. Nothing like a good counter example to make you re-evaluate things. Book was re-evaluating his ideals at the end of Serenity - the pilot - when talking with Inara. I would imagine that getting knocked unconscious by Dobson (the person he swore to protect and was trying to do so) would be good reason to re-evaluate he ideals and how they apply in the black.

LWAVES

Monday, October 8, 2007 9:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by NewBrownCoat:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:
Originally posted by lwaves:
I think the line where he says that he swore to protect Dobson would apply to anyone, and he wouldn't want to let anyone die whilst he was around.

Many here agree with you on this....but what about in War Stories or Heart of Gold?.....Book was right there witnessing the BDH's killing people. Even though Book didn't kill anyone, there were people getting killed around him.
I still gotta go with the fact that Dobson was Alliance, and Book was "sworn" to protect him...meaning Book "once" was Alliance.

Could be that the answer to his self-questioning "and I'm not even sure if I think he was wrong" was enough to modify the code he had about allowing killing to go on in his presence. Nothing like a good counter example to make you re-evaluate things. Book was re-evaluating his ideals at the end of Serenity - the pilot - when talking with Inara. I would imagine that getting knocked unconscious by Dobson (the person he swore to protect and was trying to do so) would be good reason to re-evaluate he ideals and how they apply in the black.

I'd actually completely forgotten about Book being knocked out by Dobson - and he was trying to help him.
I like the 're-evaluating his code' idea. He realised that he needed to adapt to 'survive'.
You'd only protect someone until they started hurting you. Book must have thought something like 'if he hurt someone trying to help him, what would he do to the others??'

I still think Book is/was Alliance in some form. I just can't see them having any type of code or law to protect each other. Protecting the Alliance as an entity is fair enough, but not each other. I just don't see them like the Marines, Commandos, SAS or other tight-knit military units.

"I don't believe in suicide, but if you'd like to try it it might cheer me up to watch."

NEWBROWNCOAT

Monday, October 8, 2007 9:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by lwaves:
Quote:
Originally posted by NewBrownCoat:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:
Originally posted by lwaves:
I think the line where he says that he swore to protect Dobson would apply to anyone, and he wouldn't want to let anyone die whilst he was around.

Many here agree with you on this....but what about in War Stories or Heart of Gold?.....Book was right there witnessing the BDH's killing people. Even though Book didn't kill anyone, there were people getting killed around him.
I still gotta go with the fact that Dobson was Alliance, and Book was "sworn" to protect him...meaning Book "once" was Alliance.

Could be that the answer to his self-questioning "and I'm not even sure if I think he was wrong" was enough to modify the code he had about allowing killing to go on in his presence. Nothing like a good counter example to make you re-evaluate things. Book was re-evaluating his ideals at the end of Serenity - the pilot - when talking with Inara. I would imagine that getting knocked unconscious by Dobson (the person he swore to protect and was trying to do so) would be good reason to re-evaluate he ideals and how they apply in the black.

I'd actually completely forgotten about Book being knocked out by Dobson - and he was trying to help him.
I like the 're-evaluating his code' idea. He realised that he needed to adapt to 'survive'.
You'd only protect someone until they started hurting you. Book must have thought something like if he hurt someone trying to help him, what would he do to the others??

I still think Book is/was Alliance in some form. I just can't see them having any type of code or law to protect each other. Protecting the Alliance as an entity is fair enough, but not each other. I just don't see them like the Marines, Commandos, SAS or other tight-knit military units.

"I don't believe in suicide, but if you'd like to try it it might cheer me up to watch."

I'd agree with your view that it is unlikely that an Alliance Operative - if Book was something like that - would be looking out for another alliance agent. "Like this facility - I don't exist". Doesn't seem likely that one agent would have a lot of regard for another - in fact they would more likely have orders NOT to look out for another agent so as to protect knowledge of their existance from being acquired at all.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Tuesday, October 9, 2007 4:28 AM

The ident card in Safe strongly argues for Book being some former big cheese in the Alliance, beyond being perhaps some big campaign donar ala "I also supported the Alliance".

It might be possible that he was involved in the Justice Department until becoming disillusioned (or aware) of the Alliance. It may be expected that Officers of the Court are sworn to protect Law Enforcement Officers. Were he some big cheese Supreme Justice, that would be a serious ident card, as well as reasonable cause for his shepard transition.

ASARIAN

Tuesday, October 9, 2007 11:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Quote:
Originally posted by lwaves:

I think the line where he says that he swore to protect Dobson would apply to anyone, and he wouldn't want to let anyone die whilst he was around.

Many here agree with you on this....but what about in War Stories or Heart of Gold?.....Book was right there witnessing the BDH's killing people. Even though Book didn't kill anyone, there were people getting killed around him.
I still gotta go with the fact that Dobson was Alliance, and Book was "sworn" to protect him...meaning Book "once" was Alliance.

If there's any indication that Book was Allliance, then it would be in "Safe," where his miracle ident card gets him the royal treatment. Or maybe he was a (high) cop? The man's got an oddness to him, and it ain't just his proficiency with fire-arms. Man knows things he shouldn't. Things he couldn't. For instance, he seems to know Womack is about eight solar systems away from his jurisdiction. Whatever he was, though, I find the link to him swearing to protect Dobson too weak.

Personally, I think Book is a contrite man, having either killed too many people himself, or having caused their deaths indirectly (through indifference). The "I don't give half a hump if you're innocent or not. So where does that put you?" flashback, in that regard, speaks volumes. I don't think it was a literal flashback, btw, but more like Book seeing River, and caring for her, and thinking back to what kind of man he used to be.

At any rate, Book has resolved never to kill any more (or allow to be killed, through his indifference). The difference between him watching the crew off bad folks in Heart of Gold, and him wanting to protect Dobson, I believe, lies in the fact that he has a particular hang-up about allowing harm to come to the innocent -- which is, again, what the 'flashback' with River is all about: he sees innocence before him, and is actually reminded of his own vows never to see the innocent get hurt while he's around. The innocent, that is. Burgess' men are far from innocent. Though I'm sure he'd rather not see anyone killed, given a choice, the real strong opposition to killing folks only kicks in when it looks like he's gonna be personally responsible for their deaths.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

CLEMENTINE

Tuesday, October 9, 2007 2:13 PM

I agree with most of the posts here. Although I'm with the camp that believes Book was once an operative himself or perhaps was in a position to dispatched them, I think that here he is in his Shepherd mode.

He tells himself that he will protect Dobson from the criminal Serenity crew and then is troubled that he doesn't think it was wrong for Mal to kill him. He goes on to participate in many morally questionable actions because of his love for the crew. ("It is fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps.") I'm also with those who think his primary project is the redemption of Mal. ("I've got heathens aplenty right here.")

The culmination is in Those Left Behind, when he decks Mal and leaves the ship after Mal points out that, in fact, Book is becoming more like him rather than the other way around.

I love this 'verse.
__________________________________________

LWAVES

Tuesday, October 9, 2007 10:32 PM

I thought I'd try and look at this from another direction and take my lead off a point made by Muggi in an earlier post - that using the word 'sworn' was a poor choice.
Now I'm not saying that Joss made a mistake in it, maybe there was something planned that never got written in, and that word just stayed there.
Or maybe (and any folks here with the originals could help) there was more lines elsewhere in the script that never made it to the screen and these would allow that word to make more sense.

We definitely don't know much about Book, and there's a lot of speculation around him - but that's one of the things that makes him a great character.

"I don't believe in suicide, but if you'd like to try it it might cheer me up to watch."

THEREALME

Wednesday, October 10, 2007 12:11 AM

Book (by some entirely other name, perhaps) could have been many things in his past. An Alliance officer, an Alliance government official, a bounty hunter, a police officer, a crime lord, an operative...

But at the time that we see him, I believe that he is a shepherd. I think that he turned his back on whatever horrid life he used to have (hinted at in his "hidden thoughts" that River read in Objects in Space).

The crew are mostly US Old West archetypes. Mal is the Sheriff, Zoe the loyal deputy, Inara the hooker with the heart of gold...

And Book is the famous gunsliner trying to retire. He doesn't want to kill anymore, but young bucks come gunning for him to get a name for themselves.

And to anyone who suggests that Book is currently on some secret mission, I say this: If Book is operating undercover, then he is an incompetant spy. Even Jayne can spot holes in his cover story. No, we have seen hints at what Book is capable of. If he was a spy, we would never get a hint of it!

ASARIAN

Wednesday, October 10, 2007 2:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by lwaves:
I thought I'd try and look at this from another direction and take my lead off a point made by Muggi in an earlier post - that using the word 'sworn' was a poor choice.
Now I'm not saying that Joss made a mistake in it, maybe there was something planned that never got written in, and that word just stayed there.

When did this get so complicated? Book having "sworn" to protect Dobson clearly refers to something he internally resolved to do. It don't mean he had to hold up two fingers, and say, outloud, "I swear to protect Dobson." Geez.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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