Why the Left is so dangerous
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 14:10
VIEWED: 15600
PAGE 4 of 23
Jongstraw, to clarify a point a bit..
While they have worked together in the past and present on common issues, Anarchists and Socialists don't like each other very much.
Socialistas want the state to be their nanny and run their whole existance for them, often at the expense of wealth, freedom, and privacy.
As you can imagine, that doesn't go over too well with Anarchists as a general rule, it's mostly that they don't have a "side" or any stake in the status quo and thus ally with whomever happens to best serve their own purposes at the time.
-F
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Auraptor, you must have your tinfoil hat on backwards or something because I think the current government has somehow gotten control of your mind! Not sure if there is price "fixing" but there is certainly price gouging going on. For example, while the price of gasoline goes up and down with the spot price of oil, American refining companies are unaffected by the spot price because they're all on long-term contracts. I could point to the energy companies like Enron, which specifically plotted to create an artificial shortage of electricity, and insurance companies of all sorts (not just health but also auto, homeowners etc.) which have been found guilty of various fraudulent practices. AFA The Sierra Club and other environmental groups having equal access to Congress ... you have GOT to be kidding!! The only environmental laws that Congress makes are in response to massive public pressure. We certainly don't see the environmental lobby being given the pen and ink that the wealthier interests are given. And finally, war profiteering. You don't see any? Whooooaaa dude! That's good shit you've been smokin'!
Except there's no price fixing, equal writing of public legislation by the Sierra Club and little if ANY war profiteering....... you have no case
The American Conservative said
Quote:
Halliburton, Vice President Dick Cheney’s former company, has a no-bid monopoly contract with the Army Corps of Engineers that is now estimated to be worth $10 billion. In June 2005, Pentagon contracting officer Bunny Greenhouse told a congressional committee that the agreement was the “most blatant and improper contracting abuse” that she had ever witnessed, a frank assessment that subsequently earned her a demotion.
... KBR or Kellogg, Brown and Root, the Halliburton subsidiary that has been the focus of congressional, Department of Defense, and General Accountability Office investigations. Defense Contract Audit Agency auditors have questioned Halliburton’s charges on a $1.6 billion fuel contract, claiming that the overcharges on the contract exceed $200 million. In one instance, the company charged the Army more than $27 million to transport $82,000 worth of fuel from Kuwait to Iraq. Halliburton has also been accused of billing the Army for 42,000 daily meals for soldiers, though it was only actually serving 14,000. In another operation, KBR purchased fleets of Mercedes trucks at $85,000 each to re-supply U.S. troops. The trucks carried no spare parts or even extra tires for the grueling high-speed run across the Kuwaiti and Iraqi deserts. When the trucks broke down on the highway, they were abandoned and destroyed rather than repaired.
Responding to complaints, Halliburton refused to permit independent auditing and inspected itself using so-called “Tiger Teams.” One such team stayed at the five-star Kuwait Kempinski Hotel while it was doing its audit, running up a bill of more than $1 million that was passed on to U.S. taxpayers.
Another U.S. firm well connected to the Bush White House, Custer Battles, has provided security services to the coalition, receiving $11 million in Iraqi funds including $4 million in cash in a sole-source contract to supply security at Baghdad International Airport. The company had never provided airport security before receiving the contract. It also received a $21 million no-bid contract to provide security for the exchange of Iraqi currency. It has been alleged that much of the currency “replaced” by Custer Battles has never been accounted for. The company also allegedly took over abandoned Iraqi-owned forklifts at the airport, repainted them, and then leased them back to the airport authority through a company set up in the Cayman Islands. Custer Battles reportedly set up a number of shell companies in offshore tax havens in Lebanon, Cyprus, and the Cayman Islands to handle the cash flow.
Two former company managers turned whistleblowers have charged that the company defrauded the U.S. government of at least $50 million.
... ANOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Rap,
No. I didn't respond b/c it was 20:30, I was STILL at work and needed to grocery shop on the way home before the store closed in half an an hour. I WOULD have stayed to chat and put the groceries off for another day if I thought it was worth it. But my experience is that 1) you never provide any references for your side 2) you can't explain your ideas in detail and 3) it doesn't matter how many refrences there are for the counter-argument you don't acknowledge them. In other words, discussing issues with you when I have other more pressing things to do is a waste of my time, and my time tends to be short. So maybe other people have more patience. Good luck with that. I've noticed not too many people engage with you.
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
I bet you believed the tobacco exces when they said it wasn't addictive.
Anyway, I have things to do. I'd stay and chat but ... maybe someone else will have the patience.
Don't try to side step the issue by bringing up tobacco. Totally irrelevant. You can't respond because you can't find where 'Big Oil' has been caught fixing gas prices. So instead of admitting you're flat wrong, you run away while throwing up a smoke screen ( pun intended )
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
FINN: I have been accused of being an "attention whore" because I ask questions. Not sure how one relates to the other, but to preempt that accusation, let me tell you how feel about patriotism, in context. To reiterate:
Well this seem like a red herring to avoid responding to Kennedy’s fruitcakey comments but I didn’t really expect an answer anyway.-FINN
If you had restricted your response to Kennedy, I would have also. But you're the one who expanded the topic and attacked liberals rather generally not just Kennedy, and I'm responding to your post- SIGNY.
ETA Are companies "treasonous"? I think the definition of treason should be limited to war profiteers who reduces the effectiveness of our troops and in that backhanded way materially aid "the enemy".
Your description of patriotism is a convenient excuse to be critical of a government run by an administration you don’t agree with, more then it is a love for your country, I suspect. A lot of people use patriotism as an excuse to attack the government. There isn’t anything wrong with being vigilant to preserve a liberal government (in fact I would say that it is incumbent upon us to be a free people), but that’s not necessarily patriotism. It’s probably better described as republicanism. You could argue that one could be a republican because they are patriotic, but I don’t think you can define patriotism as republicanism.- FINN
Um, did you toss out one undefined term to define another? I'm not sure I know what "republicanism" means.- SIGNY
ETA It sounds to me like YOUR definition of patriotism is a convenient way to forestall criticism of specific administrations. ANY administration is subject to criticism, and the more they fuck up, the more criticism they should get.
Patriotism is love for one’s country. It has nothing specifically to do with the government. You can love your country even if you live out in the woods away from any government involvement, or even if your government is an oppressive regime.- FINN
What form would "patriotisms take if the government WAS an oppressive regime? What would patriotism in action look like to you?- SIGNY
ETAI love my country and especially the ideals it stands for. I don't think it is necessary to compromise our ideals to the extent that Bush has in order to be "safe".
Patriotism is the glue that holds us together as a nation. .. We must be American to be a country, and in order for us to be American we must want to be American.- FINN
Okay, what is being "American"? - SIGNY
ETA I want to be an American. But to me the defining aspect of America is our governmental structure, our Constitutional Rights, and the view that "the people" grant the government its authority, not "God" or "the government itself".
We must love our country. We must have a desire for our country to be successful, a single unifying idea that leads us forward as a people. We are an extremely diverse people and we are very proud of our individuality, and these things can be strength, but they are also a recipe for conflict and disagreement. Patriotism is an ideal that gives us a sense of unity, a sense of nationality, something that we can agree on, even if we agree on nothing else.- FINN
But I want my country to be successful too. We may have different ideas of success.- SIGNY
ETA I don't know of ANY liberals who go around saying "I want my country to be a failure." I want my country to be a success. To me that means a transparent government, self-reliant production and energy, the availability of a decent-paying job for everyone who wants to work, safety from foreign enemies, and environmental stewardship so that generations of Americans after us can continue to prosper. It does NOT mean rampant corporatism. And I don't think we need to sacrifice our ideals in order to meet these goals.
---------------------------------
Always look upstream.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
There's a reason I posted Mr Kennedy's comments, and highlighted specific parts. Kennedy goes well beyond simple politicing,
Were his statements over the line? Sure I'll buy that. Were his statements outside the realm of political rhetoric? I don't think so. IMO this exceeds good taste but falls short of McCarthy-level.
Quote:
and makes the remarkably reckless charge that legal, tax paying companies doing exactly what they're suppose to do in a free society, turn a profit, are some how 'traitors'. So now capitalism is a high crime ?
That would depend on how the profits were sought. Companies that seek profit by knowingly harming people are certainly criminal, companies that damage the U.S. in search of profits could be construed as treasonous (think Northrop-Grumman selling stealth bombers to Iran).
That being said I'll agree that most of the companies he was probably thinking of don't deserve the label "traitor", but again I don't think that his statements were as far over the line as you are making them out to be.
Quote:
No where on the Right has there been anywhere near the talk of outlawing such talk and punishment dealt out for expressing one's view.
Except that if you say anything against the president or the war then you are immediately denounced as anti-American and frequently considered to be on the same side as the terrorists. In fact I seem to recall Cindy Sheehan being referred to as a traitor for thinking that the war wasn't the Greatest Idea Ever.
Quote:
Furthermore, Kennedy goes on to state that they should be "treated like traitors" . To the best of my knowledge, a sentence of death is only once brought up in the Constitution, and that's for the high crime of treason. * You may check me on that, I'm not sure *. But the question is,what else can it mean when you're told to treat a person like a traitor ?
I think there's at least one more crime that holds a Constitutional death penalty but I'm not sure. Once again I'll agree that his comments were in poor taste and over the line, but once again I don't see them as much worse then the posturing that has taken place on both sides for decades.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Finn, I'm hoping you will respond to my vision of patriotism.
---------------------------------
Always look upstream.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
SignyM wrote:
Thursday, July 12, 2007 00:50
Quote:
Except there's no price fixing, equal writing of public legislation by the Sierra Club and little if ANY war profiteering....... you have no case
Auraptor, you must have your tinfoil hat on backwards or something because I think the current government has somehow gotten control of your mind! Not sure if there is price "fixing" but there is certainly price gouging going on. For example, while the price of gasoline goes up and down with the spot price of oil, American refining companies are unaffected by the spot price because they're all on long-term contracts.
How am I suppose to respond when so much of what you say is incoherent and utterly off the topic ? First, you ridicule me for my position insinuating that I'm nuts, and then you completely abandon your own position!! "Not sure if there is price "fixing" but there is certainly price gouging going on." Based on WHAT ?? What the hell defines "price gouging "?? When you can show you know the difference between profit and profit MARGIN, then we'll talk. Until then, don't waste my time. Oil Companies don't set the price for barrels of oil. You DO know that, right ? That's the price they BUY oil at. The futures market determines what a barrel will cost. Oil companies must then buy the oil, transport it, refine it, transport it again,....etc. The 'refining' of Oil is greatly affected by groups like the Sierra club, who have duped our Gov't into mandating dozens and dozens of different blends of gasoline. In the spring, all these blends of gasoline go into affect, and it cuts into the supply of oil which the consumers can buy. Recalibrating the refineries so all those different blends can be met takes time, and lowers refining capacity, which lowers the amount of available oil BEING refined, which lowers the supply, driving up the cost...... And that's just the start of it !
But what annoys me is how you bring up the IRRELEVANT issue of Enron. WTF ??/ That has absolutely nothing to do w/ what was being discussed!! YOU first started all this by making the asinine comment that gas prices were fixed. Then gas prices that were gouged, or what ever. How you then go off on a tangent about Enron and Dick Cheney is well beyond my ability to follow, especially when you've not come anywhere near supporting your initial claim!
Do us all a favor,ok ? If you're going to have an opinion about something, be ready to back up your claim before you ramble off to several other points!
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
"Oil Companies don't set the price for barrels of oil. You DO know that, right ? That's the price they BUY oil at. The futures market determines what a barrel will cost."
That's actually not true. Oil companies buy their oil on LONG TERM CONTRACTS, where the price per bbl significantly lower than the spot price. The only country I know of that buys it's oil on the spot market is China. SignyM did mention long-term contracts, but I suspect you didn't understand the relevance and so skipped over that.
"who have duped our Gov't into mandating dozens and dozens of different blends of gasoline. In the spring, all these blends of gasoline go into affect, and it cuts into the supply of oil which the consumers can buy."
snicker I actually deal with many major refiners. BP/Arco, Chevron, Valero, ExxonMobil ... They have to do things like 'turn-arounds', but the refining of gasoline into different' 'blends' affects them not one whit. They refine the gas as usual, the 'blending' (such as adding ethanol, or toluene) happens after the normal refining. Recalibrating refineries ??? Wow. Just --- wow.
"Do us all a favor,ok ? If you're going to have an opinion about something, be ready to back up your claim" or at least know a minimal amount.
***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Warum das links so gefährlich ist
Die historische Verantwortlichkeit des links für das Untergraben der amerikanischen Gesellschaft ist so offenbar nachgewiesen worden, daß braucht nicht, irgendwie weiter gesprochen zu werden ist. Das linke gewünschte globale Wärmen und jetzt sie haben sie. Aber die Präsidenten Prophezeiung zu den amerikanischen Leuten wird auch erfüllt: Wenn internationaler sozialismus folgt, mit, die Welt in Terror noch einmal zu tauchen, ist das Resultat nicht Kommunismus und dadurch Sieg des links, aber eher die Zerstörung der Liberaler weltweit!
Wir sehen die Erfüllung der Prophezeiung. Das links empfangen eine Strafe, die zweifellos hart ist, aber mehr als verdient. Weltsozialismus irrte, sich beim Zusammenzählen die Kräfte, die ihm für diesen Krieg vorhanden sind und jetzt erfährt stufenweise die Zerstörung, die er für uns plante, und würde ohne einen zweiten Gedanken durchgeführt haben, wenn er die Fähigkeit besessen hatte.
Jedes Linke-winger ist unser Feind in diesem historischen Kampf, unabhängig davon ob er vegetates in einem Baghdad Getto oder trägt auf seinem parasitschen Bestehen in Washington oder in New York oder brennt die Trompeten des Krieges in Damaskus oder in Tehran durch. , aufgrund ihrer Geburt und ihres Glaubens, sind ein Teil einer internationalen Verschwörung gegen Amerika ganz Link-wingers. Sie wünschen seine Niederlage und Vernichtung und tun alle in ihrer Energie, sie hervorzubringen. Daß sie nichts innerhalb des Weißen Hauses tun können, ist kaum ein Zeichen ihrer Loyalität, aber eher der passenden Maßnahmen, die wir gegen sie ergriffen.
Das ist, wie wir Amerikaner sind. Unsere nationale Tugend ist unsere nationale Schwäche. Wir möchten nicht alle ändern, die viel und so lang, wie unsere Welt-berühmte gute Natur keinen großen Schaden tut, warum wir sollte? Einige gute Ratschläge, jedoch: Seien Sie nicht natured zu gut, da unsere Feinde nicht genug vortrefflich sind, unsere Fehler zu übersehen.
Wenn dieser Rat überall zutrifft, es Äpfel zu unseren Relationen mit dem links. Nachlässigkeit hier ist nicht nur eine Schwäche, ist es Mißachtung der Aufgabe und des Verbrechens gegen die Sicherheit des Zustandes. Das links sehnt sich nach einer Sache: unsere Dummheit mit Blutvergießen und Terror belohnen. Sie muß nie zu der kommen. Eins der wirkungsvollsten Verteidigung ist eine unversöhnliche, kalte Härte gegen die Zerstörer unserer Leute, gegen die Aufhetzer des Krieges, gegen die, die, wenn wir verlieren, und folglich auch gegen die Opfer fördern würden, wenn wir gewinnen.
Folglich müssen wir wieder und doch wieder sagen:
1. Das links ist unsere Zerstörung. Sie begannen diesen Krieg und verweisen ihn. Sie möchten die Amerika Regierung und unsere Leute zerstören. Dieser Plan muß blockiert werden.
2. Es gibt keine Unterscheidungen unter dem links. Jedes Linke-winger ist ein geschworener Feind der amerikanischen Leute. Wenn er nicht seine Feindseligkeitebene bildet, ist sie nur von der Feigheit und vom slyness, nicht weil er uns liebt.
3. Das links soll für jeden amerikanischen Soldaten tadeln, der in diesen Krieg fällt. Sie haben ihn auf ihrer Gewissenhaftigkeit und müssen für sie auch zahlen.
4. Wenn jemand das links verbindet, ist er ein Feind der Leute. Jedermann, das ihn beschäftigt, ist dasselbe wie ein Link-winger und muß dementsprechend behandelt werden. Er erwirbt die Verachtung der gesamten Leute, denn er ist ein feiger Feigling, der sie in der Niederlage läßt, um den Feind bereitzustehen.
5. Das links genießt den Schutz unserer Feinde. Der ist der ganzer Beweis, den wir zeigen müssen, wie schädlich sie für unsere Leute sind.
6. Das links ist die Mittel des Feindes unter uns. Er, der sie Hilfsmittel der Feind bereitsteht.
7. Das links haben kein Recht, Gleichheit mit uns zu behaupten. Wenn sie über die Straßen sprechen möchten, in den Linien Außenseite kauft, oder im allgemeinen Transport, sollten sie ignoriert werden, nicht nur weil ihr einfach falsch seien Sie, aber weil sie Left-wing sind und kein Recht zu einer Stimme in der Gemeinschaft haben.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Saying that oil companies buy their oil on long term contracts doesn't dispute my point that they don't set the world price for a barrel of oil. I skipped over Sig's spot price comment because it wasn't relevant. There is no 'price fixing', as he claims. There has been inquiry after inquiry by the US Gov't on 'BIG OIL' ripping off the consumers, and every time, nothing has been found.
Your assertion that the requirements of refineries to produce all the various different 'blends' has zero effect on the flow of gas is laughable. Sure, I might not have the industry jargon down, but my point is still valid. Snicker all you want, but there's no price gouging, no price fixing, and that's all that really matters. Are oil companies trying to make a profit ? Hell yeah they are, and good for them! But at a profit margin of around 9% , they're doing far better than many other industries.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME