Joss and biological parents. (There shall be spoilers for everything, I suspect).

POSTED BY: AgentRouka
UPDATED: Tuesday, July 3, 2007 14:30
VIEWED: 6822
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AGENTROUKA

Monday, June 11, 2007 3:40 PM

So.

Biological parents, in particular fathers, don't play much of a role in the Jossverse and generally a not positive one.

Buffy's father was absent while her mother did all the work but didn't really understand/support her for the longest time. She had issues.

Mal's father is absent, while his mother did all the work. He has issues with men.

Xanders parents are bad.

The Tam parents are bad.

Cordelia's parents are bad.

Willow, Kaylee and Fred (methinks?) - the happy and gentle characters - had good parents but we are rarely if ever shown them as having an actual role in their children's lives.

Angel as a father was sweet for a while but it quickly fell spectacularly apart, due to a threat Wes perceived from father to son.

What's the deal?

I get that Joss's point is that family is not determined by blood, but so far it seems that blood relation actually prevents family (or is not worth showing as working out on screen), with the big exception of Simon and River.

Similarly to all romantic relationships not working out long-term, due to different reasons, this seems kind of skewed.

Is it just me, or is this portrayel too one-sided, too black/white, because it denies the fact that things can be good?

THESOMNAMBULIST

Monday, June 11, 2007 3:55 PM

Hello again Agent Rouka.

I have to say I always find the representatioin of family in TV/Cinema a little one sided too. It's become a kind of short-hand in relaying character traits.

I remember hearing a while back that there were something like four disney films that actually presented a non fractured family unit. Quite interesting really.

However I think it is in most cases just more interesting to present your 'dark and broody' hero/heroine in this manner. It gives them the necessary gravitas for enigma.

I've written a script with a coupe of friends and I laid down one character quirk that I wanted in. That being that the heroine comes from a big family and they all get along just fine.

Interesting observation.

www.cirqus.com

DAVESHAYNE

Monday, June 11, 2007 4:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Is it just me, or is this portrayel too one-sided, too black/white, because it denies the fact that things can be good?

Joss likes drama. Nice well adjusted stable relationships aren't dramatic. That or Joss has daddy issues take your pick.

I will quibble a bit. I don't think Cordy's parents were ever bad per se. Perhaps distant (and of course criminally stupid regarding the tax code) but not actively harmful to their child that I can see.

David

"Not completely as well as the series of Firefly..." - From a review of Serenity at amazon.de

AGENTROUKA

Monday, June 11, 2007 4:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by daveshayne:

Joss likes drama. Nice well adjusted stable relationships aren't dramatic. That or Joss has daddy issues take your pick.

They could be, though. Joss doesn't even try to examine them, which I find lazy, so I'd lean toward the latter. *g*

Quote:

I will quibble a bit. I don't think Cordy's parents were ever bad per se. Perhaps distant (and of course criminally stupid regarding the tax code) but not actively harmful to their child that I can see.

I'll grant you that, but considering the role that parents usually play in the lives of their children, the marked absence of feeling we usually get shown - in particular from the Buffyverse characters - is pretty telling. Children being this overtly independent for their age, with little emotional attachment seems more bad than neutral. Parents aren't supposed to be neutral factors, anyway.

They all seem to be played as little adults with no parental supervision at all, which helps in keeping thing glamorous and adventurous, but also makes them all seem orphaned, in a way.

AGENTROUKA

Monday, June 11, 2007 4:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
Hello again Agent Rouka.

Hello again, TheSomnabulist. *g*

Quote:

I remember hearing a while back that there were something like four disney films that actually presented a non fractured family unit. Quite interesting really.

Oh God, yes, the Disney thing. Mothers = must die!

I understand that fractured families are big because lots of families fracture or have little cuts and tears in them. Divorce rates going up made that was/is a huge thing for many children to deal with.

Fairytales also tend to have broken families: stepmothers, sibling rivalry, bad fathers. These things help people deal with trauma that really is and was experienced.

But in the name of all things, it is not the only thing in the world! Balance, people! The trauma can't be eliminated by eliminating parents all together! *ahem* Especially if stable families are implied as existing yet never shown, like a myth. How about showing that even with flaws something might not be as broken as it seems? That'd be a step away from the teenangst toward adult rationality. Parents are people, too, and most aren't so bad in spite of their mistakes.

Sorry 'bout the rant.

Quote:

I've written a script with a coupe of friends and I laid down one character quirk that I wanted in. That being that the heroine comes from a big family and they all get along just fine.

Nifty! That certainly does sound refreshing. :)

DAVESHAYNE

Monday, June 11, 2007 5:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
I'll grant you that, but considering the role that parents usually play in the lives of their children, the marked absence of feeling we usually get shown - in particular from the Buffyverse characters - is pretty telling.

Well that's not just a Joss thing. In general TV shows (and movies) that center around child protagonists downplay the roles of adults. Usually reserving them for the bad guy roles or portraying them as oblivious to what's really going on. See "Home Alone", "Ferris Bueller's Day Off", "Fast Times At Ridgemont High", "The Breakfast Club", etc.

David

"Not completely as well as the series of Firefly..." - From a review of Serenity at amazon.de

AGENTROUKA

Monday, June 11, 2007 5:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by daveshayne:

Well that's not just a Joss thing. In general TV shows (and movies) that center around child protagonists downplay the roles of adults. Usually reserving them for the bad guy roles or portraying them as oblivious to what's really going on. See "Home Alone", "Ferris Bueller's Day Off", "Fast Times At Ridgemont High", "The Breakfast Club", etc.

Aren't all of those movies? Movies have different time constrictions than tv shows.

On a tv show, that's not strictly comedic but focused on teenaged characters, where relationships are followed over a longer course of time, are parents normally ignored at the level that Joss does it?

Of the top of my head, I can think of "Dawson's Creek" (*wince* I didn't watch it for long, mind!) and parents did play a role.

"My So Called Life" involved the parents a lot.

I'm obviously lacking some reference material here, but I can't remember a show that would take itself seriously and not at least show parents interacting with their teenaged main characters. Do you have examples?

Adult shows, as well, tend to consider parent relationships as a part of characters' lives, even if they are (stereotypically) portrayed as problematic. The X Files, Bones, The Pretender (again *wince*), Ally McBeal, Six Feet Under are some examples I can come up with.

I doubt that most shows exclude parents in the way that Joss does.

It's a big equalizer. If no one has parents, everyone's essentially, the same age. Unless they're the caretaker/teacher character, i.e. Giles or Book.
It all seems like a college setting to me, come to think of it. An eternal perpetuation of a place where you're far from parental supervision and all in a similar situation, unable to move on until you complete this stage in life. Nothing to do but find yourself through trials and tribulations, with the help of adult but not related teacher figures.

He pulls it in early with the Buffy kids and stretches it out later into the lives of the Angel team, where their mission keeps them from becoming settled and solid. On Firefly, the crew can't lead "normal" lives because of their outlaw status, as well.

DAVESHAYNE

Monday, June 11, 2007 6:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
I'm obviously lacking some reference material here, but I can't remember a show that would take itself seriously and not at least show parents interacting with their teenaged main characters. Do you have examples?

"Saved By The Bell" and "Party Of Five" come to mind. Or really just about any TV show about teens for teens.

David

"Not completely as well as the series of Firefly..." - From a review of Serenity at amazon.de

AGENTROUKA

Monday, June 11, 2007 6:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by daveshayne:
"Saved By The Bell" and "Party Of Five" come to mind. Or really just about any TV show about teens for teens.

"Saved By The Bell" wasn't primarily serious, if I recall, and "Party of Five" had a legitimate reason for the absence of the parents: they were dead.

The Buffyverse parents aren't dead. They are just played as absent and emotionally irrelevant, with the exception of Buffy's mother.

PAINTITBLACK

Wednesday, June 13, 2007 10:25 PM

I agree that Joss's series certainly highlight the lack of parental support and actually make a point of having heroes or heroines who have just one strong parent or none at all.

The orphan theme is common in myths and children's stories but is relatively rare in the usual teenage fare on television.

I think that Joss likes to highlight the idea of family as a "made" unit rather than something that you are born into.
This allows the characters to be more independent and courageous and highlights the fact that their friends play a vital role in their lives.

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