Real World Event Discussions

I came across this on another board where I am also considered a troll

POSTED BY: kaneman
UPDATED: Monday, June 18, 2007 00:58
VIEWED: 10040
PAGE 2 of 9

REAVERMAN

Saturday, June 9, 2007 5:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
I agree. But what about waitresses? Should they be forced to work in an unsafe enviorment?

No. They can be informed of the risk, and they can choose from there whether to work in a potentially hazardous environment. Hell, you can even give them hazard pay for their troubles if they do decide to work in those conditions.

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"I refuse to submit,
To the god you say is kind.
I know what's right, and it is time,
It's time to fight, and free our minds!

Our spirits were forged in snow and ice,
To bend like steel forged over fire.
We were not made to bend like reed,
Or to turn the other cheek!"

- from the song "Thousand Years of Opression" by Amon Amarth

PIRATENEWS

Saturday, June 9, 2007 2:23 PM

We're from the government and we're here to help. That what They told Ed and Dr Brown on Thursday, as the Gillie snipers opened fire on his houseguests and family pets in New Hampshire.
www.myspace.com/time2makeastand
www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=6626080&nav=4QcS

Fire departments were founded by arsonists running mafia extortion "protection" rackets. I've personally been threatened by a fire dept supervisor with "a jail cell with my name on it if I use the word 'arson'", when I tried to present him with photographic evidence of the arsonists in action, as a towering inferno engulfed the govt building next door to my penthouse. That govt contractor "accidentally" burned down its own HQ 6 months later, winning a free HQ thanks to govt-approved insurance fraud.

Quote:

Crews Watch Home Burn, Family Forced To Pay

A Gilbert family whose home burned to the ground while town firefighters refused to douse the flames will get a bill from the private fire company that eventually responded.

The double-wide mobile home in an unincorporated county area on South Higley Road was destroyed Wednesday night.

Gilbert firefighters responded to the blaze and made sure no life was at risk, but did not fight the fire under a town policy because it is in an unincorporated area.

Instead, the Rural/Metro Fire Department went to the fire as a courtesy, but they came too late to save the home.

Rural/Metro officials said they'll bill the family about $10,000 dollars anyway.

The county island fire protection issue has simmered for more than a year.

Rural/Metro ended subscription service, and county island residents voted against joining Gilbert to get protection. So for now, Gilbert officials say they will not get fire protection.

www.kpho.com/news/13397618/detail.html

"One of Edward Bernays' early clients was the tobacco industry. In 1929, he orchestrated a legendary publicity stunt aimed at persuading women to take up cigarette smoking, which was then considered unfeminine and inappropriate for women with any social standing. He initially consulted with psychoanalyst A. A. Brill, who told him that cigarettes were symbolic of the male penis. Therefore, if one wanted women to take up the habit of it was necessary to first connect the act of smoking to the idea of challenging the established male power in society. Women would smoke, he said, if the cigarette was a statement against the male-dominant ways, because this way women would symbolically have their own penises."
-Wikipedia, Public Relations, quoting BBC TV's Century of the Self
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8953172273825999151

"An Urban Legend of sorts is the resemblance of Joe Camel's nose and snout to that of a penis and scrotum, perhaps as subliminal advertising."
-Wikipedia, Joe Camel

"I’ve also struggled with the tobacco companies’ arguments that their product is not addictive because fifty million Americans have quit and because one million Americans quit each year. But, just as they say their products are only like gummy bears, they recently maintain that their use of ammonia, a primary ingredient in urine, is only to improve a cigarette’s taste. Rat poison was also used to improve taste in pipe tobacco. Dr. Pankow quickly asked that I call him "Jim" and explained that the basis for the comparison between the modern cigarette and crack cocaine is the chemical process of "free basing," which is accomplished by the additive ammonia. This process is used by most tobacco companies and was used by Richard Pryor when he accidentally set himself on fire several years ago. When ammonia is added to nicotine, ammonia picks up one additional hydrogen atom from the nicotine molecule and becomes NH4. The free base process simultaneously matches the PH of the tobacco smoke to the PH of the lungs. Bioavailability is maximized by matching the PH of the nicotine to the PH of the membranes through which the nicotine must pass before flowing in the bloodstream. The

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LEADB

Saturday, June 9, 2007 2:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Reaverman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
I agree. But what about waitresses? Should they be forced to work in an unsafe enviorment?
No. They can be informed of the risk, and they can choose from there whether to work in a potentially hazardous environment. Hell, you can even give them hazard pay for their troubles if they do decide to work in those conditions.

Well, as much as I'd like to see reduction in Gov, I'll probably never qualify as a 'true libertarian'... 2nd hand smoke, is in my opinion, hazardous. Do we let parents harm their children by smoking? Probably yes. Employment is a tough matter. I have to choose between working in a smoking environment or not working at all? Very hard choice. I am personally content that that in NY they have outlawed smoking in public places. I would also say, in any case, that if smoking leads to problems which would normally be covered by 'public' benefit, it should be denied (of course, a 'real' libertarian would solve that problem by simply tossing out all the safety nets any how)

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LEADB

Saturday, June 9, 2007 3:29 PM

Which leads back to Kaneman's original observation "Those of you who still believe in elements of the welfare/warfare state, get it through your heads: Government is no more or less than a bludgeon. Government is force. Government is a gun. That is all it is and all it can ever be. Government is like fire; if you do not control and contain it, it will recklessly consume and destroy. It is a dangerous servant and a deadly master. If you do not believe in initiating deadly force in order to make sure a person doesn't smoke in a restaurant that isn't yours, you cannot support a smoking ban without living a delusion."
I suppose the only counter is, what makes you think you can stop someone from smoking in a restraunt you own? Will you 'legally' be able to throw him out? Can you do it, if he's bigger and more skilled in combat than you? Can you call the police to remove the offender? Will they? You can refuse to serve the fellow, certainly; but if the smoker is there to 'make a point' he may not care.

In any case, I have no delusion that I can 'make' someone not smoke in a restraunt that I own.

BROWNCOATSANDINISTA

Saturday, June 9, 2007 11:22 PM

If he is smoking and you don't want him too, ask him to stop. If he refuses to stop, ask him to leave. If he refuses to leave, you can physically throw him out. If he's bigger//stronger than you, you can call the cops, and if they won't help, you're probably within your rights to shoot him. If he fought back against your forcing him to leave, then you are defending yourself and your property.

Granted, most people wont get that far and if/when a gun is brought in things tend to go along the lines of the smoker leaving. Also, it is reasonable to say that the cops will remove a person, because you can say he's on your land without permission after you've asked him to leave, so their refusing to help is unlikely. No police department wants to get sued for failure to do their jobs. Granted, this may not get your smoker out but it is probably way beyond the realm of possibility anyway.

"I'm not going to say Serenity is the greatest SciFi movie ever; oh wait yes I am." - Orson Scott Card

LEADB

Sunday, June 10, 2007 4:35 AM

Maybe. You must remember this is in 'mythical Kaneman land' where there aren't any 'no smoking laws'. Perhaps we don't have cops either; I'm not clear on what's left when Kaneman is done.

FREMDFIRMA

Sunday, June 10, 2007 8:07 AM

Re: Smoking.

Firstoff, if you prefer that I don't smoke near you for heavens sake man up and ask me politely like a human being and fellow person, and it's all cool.

You come up to me with threats and hostility though, I am likely to return the favor and am probably better at it.

And what I do on my own property a hundred miles and more away from you ain't your business, is it now.

Also consider I can apply the same argument to your SUV and it's toxic emissions - and I want you to think on that, and think HARD.

Being stuck at a bus stop next to your idling road beast for five minutes is more harmful and toxic than sitting in the smoking section of a restaurant for an entire week, and should I step over there and demand you shut off your engine ?

Past a certain point this shit gets ridiculous, and never once has it been about peoples health cause most of the "anti-smoking" folks have heavy investment into those patches, which are in fact, if you do your homework, simply set up to addict you to their product instead of big tobacco.

Big pharma and Big tobacco, it's just a pair of slimy drug dealers fightin over turf and neither one gives a damn about it, and most of the do-gooder crapola is a pretty shiny face on a greedy hand sticking out for government money, MY tax dollars robbed from MY paycheck, and on top of it the enormous excise tax paid on each pack.

Look into WHERE that money goes and the ridiculous crap it's spent on and who gets rich off it - and then we'll talk.

But if you think those people actually care about anyones health but their own financial health, you're dreaming.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, June 10, 2007 10:19 AM

Fucking right Frem.

I want SUVs banned.
I want semi truks banned.
I want compact cars banned.
I want forest fires banned.

I want keyboards at work banned because they promote carpal-tunnel syndrome.

I want computer monitors and video games banned because they've ruined my eyes.

I want internet porn banned because if I diddle my doodle too much I'll have erectile dysfunction by the time I'm 40.

I want coughing banned because your germs can make me sick.

I want car horns banned because they can damage my hearing prematurely.

I want marriage banned because most marriages are going to end in divorce and the kids are going to be fucked up.

Oh... and Hero, no matter what I've said about you in the past I'm starting to warm up to you.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

LEADB

Monday, June 11, 2007 5:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Re: Smoking.
Firstoff, if you prefer that I don't smoke near you for heavens sake man up and ask me politely like a human being and fellow person, and it's all cool.

Ok, no problem. I agree with you 100%, this is -always- the place to start.

Quote:
You come up to me with threats and hostility though, I am likely to return the favor and am probably better at it.

I never have problems with reasonable rational folks. I have not doubt you'd be better at it. In all likelyhood, I'd much more likely to hire someone such as yourself to 'enforce' the 'no smoking restraunt' I would own in this theortical world where I cannot rely on law to support a no smoking rule in this theortical restraunt.

Quote:

And what I do on my own property a hundred miles and more away from you ain't your business, is it now.

In general, I agree. Personally, I can't tell you how many times I've wandered into a restraunt, asked for non-smoking, gotten it, gotten my food; had a smoker sit down, start smoking. At this point, I can realize the restraunt has inadequate controls on their non/smoking areas, but the dinner is pretty well shot. Sure, I can ask nicely for them to not smoke, but in all cases they will observe they are 'rightly' in the smoking area. Occaisionally I've asked to move tables, and the waiter/waitress will accomodate if possible. In any case, keep in mind that a 'quiet non-smoker' rarely agrevates a smoker; the reverse is often not the case. Also call me sick of cigarrett butts cast out car windows.

Quote:

Also consider I can apply the same argument to your SUV and it's toxic emissions - and I want you to think on that, and think HARD.

I wouldn't own a vehicle that gets less then 25 MPG. But I appreciate the point you are trying to make. Incidentally, I think that gov. has been massively underactive in promoting environmental controls; but I'm sure that's not the point you are trying to make.

Quote:

Being stuck at a bus stop next to your idling road beast for five minutes is more harmful and toxic than sitting in the smoking section of a restaurant for an entire week, and should I step over there and demand you shut off your engine ?

Past a certain point this shit gets ridiculous, and never once has it been about peoples health cause most of the "anti-smoking" folks have heavy investment into those patches, which are in fact, if you do your homework, simply set up to addict you to their product instead of big tobacco.

Big pharma and Big tobacco, it's just a pair of slimy drug dealers fightin over turf and neither one gives a damn about it, and most of the do-gooder crapola is a pretty shiny face on a greedy hand sticking out for government money, MY tax dollars robbed from MY paycheck, and on top of it the enormous excise tax paid on each pack.

Look into WHERE that money goes and the ridiculous crap it's spent on and who gets rich off it - and then we'll talk.

But if you think those people actually care about anyones health but their own financial health, you're dreaming.

So, you think if we simply stop regulating pharma they will meakly do appropriate testing for safety. Sorry, if anything, I believe more testing requirements should be put in place. As far as gov 'waste' and folks getting rich off it, I have no qualms about privitization of things that don't have to be done by the gov; for instance, if fire fighting can be done more effectively by private/volunteer, then I'm all for moving it off gov's plate.

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FREMDFIRMA

Monday, June 11, 2007 11:49 PM

Yanno, Incident at a Dennys on Ritchie Hwy, in MD...

We come in, four of us - place is downright empty, near deserted, ok ?
Given the hour not surprising cause we worked nights.
We ask for, and get seated at, a table in the smoking section, wayyy off in the corner on the other side of the building, mind you.
And we place our order, get some coffee, and me and ray fire up, neither don nor steve smokes... now, about 8-10 minutes later.

In comes some smarmy lookin suit, who gets into a passionate discussion with the manager, who after a bit of that comes all the way over to us, on the other side of the building, and tells us to put out our smokes!

Now bear in mind that this was a rather large dennys with a perfectly adequate airscubber and circulation system, which in fact we are sitting directly under the intake so we did not "smog out" steve and don.

You can imagine me being a bit less than happy with this, and told him to perform an anatomically impossible act, and he then told us if we didn't like it, leave - and we did, all four of us, and gave him the finger when he held up the check, although don crumped up a ten spot and bounced it off the jerks chest, and from that day on, we ate somewhere ELSE after work.

Forgive me if I have not much sympathy for someone who goes into a business that allows smoking or has a smoking section - and then complains about people smoking.

I don't go into non-smoking establishments and then bitch that they won't let me light up, in spite of the fact that the ratio is pretty damned heavy against smoking, and I *will* honor a business that allows me to over one that does not even if it is of inferior quality, because they offer me a preferred environment, same as a non-smoker wants a smoke free building, see ?

So let's not play doublestandard there, ok now ?

Although mixed section restaurants should have an adquate ventilation system that is inspected and tested by the health dept during the regular inspection process, in fact, ANY restaurant should, smoking or non, only common sense, but when has that ever been common.

Quote:
Incidentally, I think that gov. has been massively underactive in promoting environmental controls; but I'm sure that's not the point you are trying to make.

Nope, but it's not a bad one neither.
Also, bear in mind that by classing these beasts as SUVs and making sure they weigh OVER a certain amount GVW it lets them sleaze their way out of certain emissions reqs too.
But yeah, SUV exhaust is way worse than secondhand smoke, but no one seems to care too much about that, which, if the priority really was health instead of profit, they would.

Quote:
So, you think if we simply stop regulating pharma they will meakly do appropriate testing for safety. Sorry, if anything, I believe more testing requirements should be put in place.

Oh, you got me backwards there, dude, I want us ALL up in Big Pharma's business given past events and sure as HELL I don't want the FDA as it is, the coverup and PR arm of Big Pharma, I want them to actually do their damn JOB for once.

I'm just sayin that a lot of this antismoking crap is pushed by the nicotene patch companies, who set their quit-smoking programs up so that you WILL fail, and so in the end you are simply changing dealers for the same drug, see ?

That's not encouraging your health, that's two dope dealers fightin over your business by telling you pretty little lies - neither one gives a shit ABOUT you, just your money.

And hey, i'm all for whoever gets it done most efficiently for a buck, but no way no how is it the damn GOVERNMENTS job to run MY gorram life, and sure as hell they got no right to take MY tax dollars from MY paycheck and then use them to run a propaganda campaign aimed at forcing ME to change MY lifestyle to suit THEM.

Like. Bloody. Hell.

Show me where in the US Constitution it authorises them to do this ?
And yes, follow where that money goes and what it's actually used for, and you will be feeling kinda ill about it too.

-Frem

It cannot