Jesus Appalled By Americans?

POSTED BY: Mavourneen
UPDATED: Monday, April 9, 2007 23:32
VIEWED: 11915
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GEEZER

Thursday, April 5, 2007 1:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Hunh? Have you never heard of non-monetary economies? There are many, even today. And yet somehow they survive without even money, let alone 'capitalism'.

Provide me with an example of an existing non-monetary economy which can produce a microwave, or digital camera, or portable defibrilator. Then we'll talk.

Provide me with any example of a working technological society with a relatively high standard of living which does not have some form of capitalism as its economic base.

Capitalist theory is a tool, just like a saw or a gun. It's results depend on who is using it and the laws which regulate that use. Used properly, with appropriate controls, capitalism should be able to provide a pretty good deal for everyone. Sometimes it's used less than properly, and in that case rules changes are appropriate, not just scrapping the whole thing with no alternative in train.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

SIGNYM

Thursday, April 5, 2007 4:41 PM

Ford CEO: $28M for 4 months work
Former Boeing exec got $18.5 million bonus, almost $9 million in stock and options and base salary at annual $2 million rate, according to proxy.
http://money.cnn.com/2007/04/05/news/companies/ford_execpay/index.htm?
cnn=yes

Wal-Mart snooping exposes hot industry
By Anne D'Innocenzio, AP Business Writer
March 15, 2007

NEW YORK --Wal-Mart's disclosure that an employee was tapping phone conversations and text messages is drawing attention to a growth industry within corporate America: the business of keeping things secret.
www.boston.com/business/technology/articles/2007/03/16/wal_mart_snoopi
ng_exposes_hot_industry/

Income Gap Is Widening, Data Shows

By DAVID CAY JOHNSTON
Published: March 29, 2007
Income inequality grew significantly in 2005, with the top 1 percent of Americans — those with incomes that year of more than $348,000 — receiving their largest share of national income since 1928, analysis of newly released tax data shows.
www.nytimes.com/2007/03/29/business/29tax.html?em&ex=1175313600&en=311
ab7d3df477c4e&ei=5087

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

RUE

Thursday, April 5, 2007 4:59 PM

"some form of capitalism"

The problem with this argument is that you can expand the definition of capitalism to be almost anything you want it to be. That makes it hard to discuss.

SIGNYM

Thursday, April 5, 2007 5:30 PM

Wal-Mart says sorry, this time to shareholders
Company apologizes for doing 'threat' research on shareholders after they submitted proxy petitions.
April 5 2007: 12:25 PM EDT

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Wal-Mart apologized Thursday for considering some shareholder groups as potential "threats" after they submitted proxy proposals ahead of the retailer's annual meeting in June.

Wal-Mart spokesman John Simley, referring to an internal company memo that described "background research" being conducted on shareholder groups as a "threat assessment," told CNN that Wal-Mart made a "poor choice of words.
http://money.cnn.com/2007/04/05/news/companies/walmart_apology/index.h
tm?cnn=yes

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

GEEZER

Thursday, April 5, 2007 6:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"some form of capitalism"

The problem with this argument is that you can expand the definition of capitalism to be almost anything you want it to be. That makes it hard to discuss.

OK, how about the technological non-monetary economy? You stated that there are some out there that work.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

RUE

Thursday, April 5, 2007 6:34 PM

"Hunh? Have you never heard of non-monetary economies? There are many, even today. And yet somehow they survive without even money, let alone 'capitalism'."

Technological? No, I don't see that word anywhere. You read into it. You really need to read my posts literally.

The point was that societies survived for millennia - no, wait - MILLIONS of years - without money. And along the way managed to invent or harness language, bowls, agriculture and husbandry, writing, building, astronomy ...

RUE

Thursday, April 5, 2007 6:41 PM

But to get back to my objection, which I didn't have time to expound on before -

Where my dad grew up (in Poland) farmers noticed that if they exchanged seeds every few years their oat crops remained vigorous, but if they didn't the crops would decline. So if I were to use that as an example of a non-capitalist system you could say they had a free-market which is 'a form of' capitalism. If I were to use the medieval system as an example of a non-monetary economy you could say there was someone who 'owned' the means of production and collected the 'profit', therefore it was 'a form of' capitalism.

I would love to discuss the topic, but you'll need to come up with a definition of capitalism that isn't 'one size fits all. Because, as in the garment industry, it really doesn't.

SIGNYM

Thursday, April 5, 2007 6:56 PM

They noticed that in Peru, too. The Incans (I think) used to have a gathering every seven years, it was mandatory. The farmers were also required to bring in some of their seed corn because they'd mix it all together and send everyone away with a mixed bag of seed. Up in those high mountain valleys it's easy for your village crop to become a monoculture.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

SIGNYM

Thursday, April 5, 2007 7:02 PM

Time to start a new thread on the same topic, this one will be entitled:

Jesus Appalled by Capitalism?

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Always look upstream.

XXKITTENZXX

Monday, April 9, 2007 11:32 PM

*chuckle* well then in that case, make the prayer time optional and not mandatory, therefore everyone who wants it gets it and those who don't want to don't have to. Nothing is forced upon anyone, and we all live according to how we see fit.

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