[quote]. Is the American the first benevolent superpower?..[/quote]

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CITIZEN

Friday, February 16, 2007 6:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I think you’re confusing expansionism with a police action. Neither the wars in Iraq nor Afghanistan are wars being fought because the US wants to take something from these countries,

Come on, I'm not stupid enough to think that Oil was the reason for the Iraq war, but I'm not naive enough to think Oil wasn't a factor.

A further question is why only US companies are considered for rebuilding contracts.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

CHRISISALL

Friday, February 16, 2007 6:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:

A further question is why only US companies are considered for rebuilding contracts.

Because no one in the world can beat U.S.companies in low cost technical excellence.

I mean...right? That must be why.....

U.S. # 1! Chrisisall

CITIZEN

Friday, February 16, 2007 6:41 PM

Except the Iraqi companies that had the lowest bid by miles but still didn't get the contracts...

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

CHRISISALL

Friday, February 16, 2007 6:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Except the Iraqi companies that had the lowest bid by miles but still didn't get the contracts...

Their work is substandard, and they hire illegals anyway.
See here:
Http://www.Notareallinktoanythingyoudope.com

Not brainwashed Chrisisall

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Friday, February 16, 2007 11:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
]Correct as far as Afganistan.
But the Iraq War was started to create a U.S. friendly nation, safe ground for a large, permanent base, and give us a better handle on what's going on in the middle east. But they couldn't just exactly SAY that, hence the terrorist-connection and WMD's.

I suppose you might also say that the (planned) end result will make us safer from terrorism in the long run...but I doubt it.

It’s correct as far as Iraq goes as well. Neither Afghanistan nor Iraq are wars of aggression. They are not undertaken for resources or territory, but rather as a desire to secure stability, in the same way the FBI may raid a crack house. I’m not asking you to agree with either war or to think that either will ultimately be necessarily effective in achieving that goal, but neither of these wars detracts from my point. Liberal democracies would far, far prefer to have a wealthy and prosperous and free Iraq and Afghanistan that can provide international trade and commerce rather then spoils of wars of expansion.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

CHRISISALL

Friday, February 16, 2007 11:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Liberal democracies would far, far prefer to have a wealthy and prosperous and free Iraq and Afghanistan that can provide international trade and commerce rather then spoils of wars of expansion.

Now comes the question of what exactly 'spoils of wars of expansion' means.
Surely we do not intend to make Iraq our 51st state, as was joked at on another site, but we wanted to expand our influence, and expand our power in the region. So expansion here is not literal, as in land, but more figurative, as in concerning regional control.

So in effect, the FBI raided a crack house using the story that witnesses had seen Satanic murders going on inside. Then the agents doing the raid were given insufficent numbers to get all the perps. Then they asked for more agents while promising the local TV station that there were Satanic murders, but they just can't find the bloody alter....

See, if ya can't get what ya want by telling the truth, then maybe you shouldn't get it at all.

Okay, not stricktly expansionist, but still, The Iraq War is a war started on lies and bad intel. You point is made, but that doesn't make both Afghanistan AND Iraq acceptable.
But that's not what you were actually talking about...please pardon my rant

Carried away Chrisisall

6IXSTRINGJACK

Saturday, February 17, 2007 2:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
China pretty much owns America economically as it is, a substantial amount of America's national debt is to the Chinese. In other words the Chinese could cripple America tomorrow by presenting a bill, but as Finn says a stable world is in Americas best interests, as it is with the Chinese. They're making a fortune off of a relatively stable world, and crippling America's economy could only damage that.

The point is that the Chinese aren't going to go on a murderous expansionist kick just because they surpass the United States as #1 super power, it wouldn't be in their best interests, and with the Chinese general isolationist attitude I think they'd probably be even less likely to put troops on to foreign soil.

Wow Cit.... I'm not used to such an insane amout of conjecture from someone like you.

I'm not willing to welcome a future with China at the helm because you think they're isolationists and not murderers. If anything, they are the most intelligent and forward thinking people on the planet. Whereas in America, they've got us only thinking 4 years into the future because of our presidential terms, the Chinese think hundreds of years into the future. They didn't get where they're at today due to luck or lack of planning. They don't intend to be isolationists for long... just long enough to get "hand" in the situation. They're a cool customer and they're simply biding their time now. We know very little about their true political motivations and agendas because they are nowhere near the spotlight or microscope like America is.

And, BTW, if China were to "cripple our economy", they would be destroying their own in the process, not only "damage" it. Don't try to play that aspect down. If this weren't true, they would have done it already and just continued doing business with Europe. This is not to say that they aren't planning on pulling this sometime in the future as their situation grows more favorable.

At this point though, you should consider it a mutually assured destruction in economic terms, and one where the economy of the whole world could unravel.

Read up on it a bit more. The half Tillion that China has is a mere pittance of the national debt of nearly 9 Trillion. I piss on what China has. This is just the media talking anyhow. If America, China's largest importer, were to crumble, China would find itself spending up its banked cash really quick.... the cash that isn't American Dollars that would be worthless at this point anyhow. We don't owe this money to other countries either. America is up to their ears in debt with the Federal Reserve, which is neither Federal or a Reserve. We're not the only ones. They own every country on the globe brother.

You stick to science and what you're good at, and keep your not-so-cleverly disguised and emotional anti-American sentiments out of this. Anyone who actually reads anything other than the paper or the front page on MSN will know that you're out of your field of expertise here.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

CITIZEN

Saturday, February 17, 2007 3:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Wow Cit.... I'm not used to such an insane amout of conjecture from someone like you.

I'm not willing to welcome a future with China at the helm because you think they're isolationists and not murderers.

It's reasonable, China will be subject to the same world wide pressures as America, China's buisness is currently aimed at supplying the Western nations, and that's why they won't go off conquering the world. It's not in their best interests, a point you gloss over rather completely.

Quote:
I'm not willing to welcome a future with China at the helm because you think they're isolationists and not murderers.

I can't see that they could do a significantly worse job than the US.

Quote:
If anything, they are the most intelligent and forward thinking people on the planet. Whereas in America, they've got us only thinking 4 years into the future because of our presidential terms, the Chinese think hundreds of years into the future.

Oh a conspiracy theory, the Chinese have been planning this in secret for hundreds of years. Maybe they're the planners for the NWO and the secret pagan societies, perhaps we should ask Antimason?

Quote:
They didn't get where they're at today due to luck or lack of planning. They don't intend to be isolationists for long... just long enough to get "hand" in the situation. They're a cool customer and they're simply biding their time now.

Right, so the chinese have been isolationists for hundreds of years because they knew (prior to the western discovery of America) that the US would be founded and become a super power? The Chinese have been isolationists since before the US even existed, they were isolationists while the British were beating them in the Opium wars in the 1800's, they're somewhat isolationist now. You really expect me to believe their hundreds of years of isolationism was all leading up to the moment they'd replace the US as #1 super power? And you're saying I'm putting out a lot of conjecture?

Quote:
We know very little about their true political motivations and agendas because they are nowhere near the spotlight or microscope like America is.

Because they've been isolating themselves from the outside world where as America has been doing the exact opposite.

Quote:
And, BTW, if China were to "cripple our economy", they would be destroying their own in the process, not only "damage" it. Don't try to play that aspect down. If this weren't true, they would have done it already and just continued doing business with Europe.

At this point though, you should consider it a mutually assured destruction in economic terms, and one where the economy of the whole world could unravel.

Far from playing it down this is exactly what I said, though not in so many words.

Quote:
You stick to science and what you're good at, and keep your not-so-cleverly disguised and emotional anti-American sentiments out of this. Anyone who actually reads anything other than the paper or the front page on MSN will know that you're out of your field of expertise here.

Ohh a personal insult, final proof you have a better understanding. Stick to the crazy fallacious conspiracy theories, it's all your good at, and leave you're not so clevely disguised borderline schitzophrenia and emotional hatred for anything outside of the US out of this. Anyone who actually reads something other than the front page of 'prisionplanet' already knows you're full of shit.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Saturday, February 17, 2007 3:06 AM

I have no idea what Prisonplanet is.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

CITIZEN

Saturday, February 17, 2007 3:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I have no idea what Prisonplanet is.

I don't get all my information from the front page of MSN and the 'paper', you want to talk shit you don't get to bitch when it's thrown back, suck it up.

Oh of course I must not have a clue what I'm talking about, I don't agree with you 100%, I must be tool of government oppression. God amongst men that you are.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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