Are we all imprisoned w/in the USA?
POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Wednesday, February 12, 2025 14:25
VIEWED: 4789
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We're All Prisoners, Now: US Citizens to be Required ''Clearance'' to Leave USA
October 26, 2006
Forget no-fly lists. If Uncle Sam gets its way, beginning on Jan. 14,
2007, we'll all be on no-fly lists, unless the government gives us permission to leave-or re-enter-the United States.
The U.S. Department of Homeland Security (HSA) has proposed that all airlines, cruise lines-even fishing boats-be required to obtain clearance for each passenger they propose taking into or out of the United States.
It doesn't matter if you have a U.S. Passport -a "travel document" that now, absent a court order to the contrary, gives you a virtually unqualified right to enter or leave the United States, any time you want. When the DHS system comes into effect next January, if the agency says "no" to a clearance request, or doesn't answer the request at all, you won't be permitted to enter-or leave-the United States.
Consider what might happen if you're a U.S. passport holder on assignment in a country like Saudi Arabia. Your visa is about to expire, so you board your flight back to the United States. But wait! You can't get on, because you don't have permission from the HSA. Saudi immigration officials are on hand to escort you to a squalid
detention center, where you and others who are now effectively "stateless persons" are detained, potentially indefinitely, until their immigration status is sorted out.
Why might the HSA deny you permission to leave-or enter-the United States? No one knows, because the entire clearance procedure would be an administrative determination made secretly, with no right of appeal. Naturally, the decision would be made without a warrant, without probable cause and without even any particular degree of suspicion. Basically, if the HSA decides it doesn't like you, you're a prisoner - either outside, or inside, the United States, whether or
not you hold a U.S. passport.
The U.S. Supreme Court has long recognized there is a constitutional right to travel internationally. Indeed, it has declared that the
right to travel is "a virtually unconditional personal right." The United States has also signed treaties guaranteeing "freedom of travel." So if these regulations do go into effect, you can expect a lengthy court battle, both nationally and internationally.
Think this can't happen? Think again. It's ALREADY happening. Earlier this year, HSA forbade airlines from transporting an 18-year-old a
native-born U.S. citizen, back to the United States. The prohibition lasted nearly six months until it was finally lifted a few weeks ago.
Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union are two countries in recent history that didn't allow their citizens to travel abroad without permission. If these regulations go into effect, you can add the United States to this list.
For more information on this proposed regulation, see http://
hasbrouck.org/IDP/IDP-APIS-comments.pdf.
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Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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That's shocking news, but somehow, I can see all western countries going this way. Goverments love to use terrorism etc. as an excuse for oppression and control...
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www.colchestergladiators.com
www.myspace.com/32dan32
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Signym:
Your link doesn't appear to working that well. Possibly it's just experiencing trouble at the moment. I did do some searching on this, and found the following link:
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.cgi?position=all&page=
40035&dbname=2006_register
This will give you direct access to a page from the Federal Register that actually outlines the changes to the existing policy. The only changes I can find to existing regulations are,
"...electronic manifest transmission
requirements relative to passengers,
crew members, and non-crew members
traveling onboard international
commercial flights and voyages. Under
current regulations, air carriers must
transmit to the Bureau of Customs and
Border Protection (CBP), Department of
Homeland Security (DHS), passenger
manifest information for aircraft en
route to the United States no later than
15 minutes after the departure of the
aircraft. This proposed rule implements
the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism
Prevention Act of 2004 requirement that
such information be provided to the
government before departure of the
aircraft. This proposed rule provides air
carriers a choice between transmitting
complete manifests no later than 60-
minutes prior to departure of the aircraft
or transmitting manifest information on
passengers as each passenger checks in
for the flight, up to but no later than 15
minutes prior to departure. The rule
also proposes to amend the definition of
‘‘departure’’ for aircraft to mean the
moment the aircraft is pushed back from
the gate. For vessel departures from the
United States, the rule proposes
transmission of passenger and crew
manifests no later than 60 minutes prior
to departure of the vessel."
Not sure how this constitutes a major shift in current procedures or represents an agregious plan to implement a totalitarian state bent on preventing its citizens from ever crossing the borders. It sounds to me like all they want to do is have infomation about passengers on flights before the flight departs rather than after. What am I missing?
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I like being a prisoner. Prisoners are safe.
Except from that big horney dude over there *cringes*
Saftey over liberty Chrisisall
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Okay, was able to get some further information for everyone to look at. If you go to this link:
http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/component/main
In the middle of the page there is a "Search For" option available to you. Click on the option for "All Documents (Open and Closed for Comment)". Use the search term "USCBP-2005-0003" in the "keyword or ID" box and do your search. You should get a list of public comments already made on the proposed rules change as well as the entire rule change itself, which is rather lengthy. If you are worried about your travel rights, then take a look at it and if you have concerns, then you can actually submit them to then for consideration before the rule is implemented.
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"There is not such a cradle of democracy upon the earth as the Free Public Library, this republic of letters, where neither rank, office, nor wealth receives the slightest consideration."
---Andrew Carnegie
"Doing research on the Web is like using a library assembled piecemeal by pack rats and vandalized nightly."
---Roger Ebert
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Razza, thanks. You're a gem.
---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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Signym:
You are most welcome sir! Glad to help.
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"There is not such a cradle of democracy upon the earth as the Free Public Library, this republic of letters, where neither rank, office, nor wealth receives the slightest consideration."
---Andrew Carnegie
"Doing research on the Web is like using a library assembled piecemeal by pack rats and vandalized nightly."
---Roger Ebert
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Are we all imprisoned w/in the USA?
Not all of us; I'm imprisoned in a small town in Canada.
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
that big horney dude over there *cringes*
I've been watching too much Buffy.
I had to re-read that twice before I realized you (probably) weren't referring to a big guy with horns.
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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.
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I think I called this one a long time ago, USA is becoming USSR. Not being able to leave is the first and most essential part of that plan. But thanks for the heads up.
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Why would you want to leave? Besides tryin to get to the airport your stuck in gridlock and now truly have lost your freedom. And another thing say you get out ya have to swim back in shark invested waters. Oh bye the way the tide may take you to South Beach FL or worst SF Bay. Come On.
I like smackin em.
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