Rush Limbaugh, Michael J. Fox and Parkinson's Disease
POSTED BY: misbehaven
UPDATED: Saturday, November 18, 2006 01:39
VIEWED: 26984
PAGE 5 of 19
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:That's f***ing bull***t, you a**hole!
Originally posted by Razza:
Under that logic, Mel Gibson shouldn't be in any trouble for his recent comments since he is obviously suffering from alcholism, a debilitating illness in it's own right.
How dare you equate a lack of personal control with a degenerative DISEASE that ultimatly causes death?
Let me take a stab here, you drink WAYYY too much, but it's a 'disease', so it's not you fault, right?
Sorry, I assumed Hero was the cruelest dope hereabouts. My bad.
Rabid Chrisisall
Why the insults and personal attacks? Why not just point out that alcoholism and parkinson's disease are illnesses of a different color and leave it at that? Or are you incapable of a civil discussion?
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"History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon."
---Napoleon Bonaparte
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Razza,
Largely I suspect it's because you argue out of both sides of your mouth.
And because you think it's OK to belittle someone's integrity and politics because they have Parkinson's.
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Quote:Because everyone seems to have some political axe to grind. Nobody sticks to the substance of the issues.
Originally posted by Razza:
Why the insults and personal attacks? Why not just point out that alcoholism and parkinson's disease are illnesses of a different color and leave it at that? Or are you incapable of a civil discussion?
Then the crap comparisons to illustrate some 'point' that aren't even consistant.
Fox didn't CHOOSE to get sick, so-called alchoholics (them that drink too much alcoholic beverages) CHOOSE to pour drinks down their throats.
They are not illness of a different colour, because one is NOT an illness!
And you think I should take any of your politics seriously?
If I need to point out such basics, civil discussion is lost for me.
(Nothing personal, just using your comments as an example of how 'discussion' is impossible when mired in such ignorance and agenda; this is in point of fact, Rush Limbaugh's whole routine.)
Wrong side of the bed Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Razza,
Largely I suspect it's because you argue out of both sides of your mouth.
And because you think it's OK to belittle someone's integrity and politics because they have Parkinson's.
Sorry? When did I belittle someone with Parkinsons's? As far as I can see, the only people belittling anyone are you and Chrisisall. I don't recall insulting or belittling anyone. I merely responded to Soupcatcher's post with relevant information and links in hopes of hearing his perspective, and possibly learning something. Unlike you, I believe it is counterproductive to insult someone when discussing a very important issue, and I have accordingly refrained from doing so.
-----------------
"History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon."
---Napoleon Bonaparte
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:Because everyone seems to have some political axe to grind. Nobody sticks to the substance of the issues.
Originally posted by Razza:
Why the insults and personal attacks? Why not just point out that alcoholism and parkinson's disease are illnesses of a different color and leave it at that? Or are you incapable of a civil discussion?
Then the crap comparisons to illustrate some 'point' that aren't even consistant.
Fox didn't CHOOSE to get sick, so-called alchoholics (them that drink too much alcoholic beverages) CHOOSE to pour drinks down their throats.
They are not illness of a different colour, because one is NOT an illness!
And you think I should take any of your politics seriously?
If I need to point out such basics, civil discussion is lost for me.
(Nothing personal, just using your comments as an example of how 'discussion' is impossible when mired in such ignorance and agenda; this is in point of fact, Rush Limbaugh's whole routine.)
Wrong side of the bed Chrisisall
Chris:
I appreciate your frustration with the impossibility of civil discussion. I share it! But I submit that your previous response to me was part of the problem. I disagree that alcholism is not a disease and so do many physicians and organizations like Alcoholics Anonymous. It is precisely because people refuse to see it for what it is that it continues to plague our society. We can start a whole new discussion on this topic, but here are a couple of links your might want to take a look at before dismissing it as a personal choice issue.
http://www.physiciansnews.com/commentary/298wp.html
http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/FAQs/General-English/FAQ2.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disease_Theory_of_Alcoholism
So, I don't think it is a "crap" comparison, nor do I have a political "axe" to grind. I just like Firefly and enjoy talking to like minded people about our world views. While I usually lurk, I felt like entering the discussion for a change, but if this is the reaction I can count on in the future, I'm not sure it is worth the effort. Was that your intention?
-----------------
"History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon."
---Napoleon Bonaparte
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Quote:"Their health condition does not exclude them from criticism, nor should it."
Originally posted by Razza:
Sorry? When did I belittle someone with Parkinsons's?
BUT LIMBO ATTACKED HIS DISEASE-OR LACK THEREOF-AND PERSONAL CREDIBILITY. Not stem cell research, or celebrity endorsement. To defend the indefensible (Rush) you destroy your own position (And piss off those tired of the endless bullshit).
But by your logic, Rush should be excused due to his oxycontinaholism, a degenerative disease in it's own right, correct?
Snark, thy name is Chrisisall
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poor Adam is a die hard GOP fan
As Rush Predicted
http://forums.prospero.com/foxfirefly/messages?msg=32604.6
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Quote:
Originally posted by JaynezTown:
As Rush Predicted
http://forums.prospero.com/foxfirefly/messages?msg=32604.6
He's still a pig, yeah. And your point is....?
Confused Chrisisall
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Hmmm. Been trying to post this for a while now. Let's see if the X time is the charm...
Quote:
Originally posted by Razza:
All true, but he has also co-sponsored legislation that would expand stem cell research derived from umbilical chord blood [Senate Bill S.681]. He has also come under fire for supporting bills which were not popular with his pro-life base, see article:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11410626/site/newsweek/
All and all, he sounds like a typical politician on this issue, walking a razors edge depending on the way the political wind blows, but what else can we expect from the idiots we elect these days?
What was fascinating, to me, is that he appears to be going out of his way to steer clear of the entire topic of stem cell research. I went to each of the candidates web sites to see what their positions were. Claire McCaskill appears to be making this a primary issue of her campaign. Lots of stuff. Jim Talent? Not so much. In fact, I couldn’t find one mention of stem cell research on his site ( http://www.talentforsenate.com ).
* edited because I realized his site hadn't been indexed at all *
Compared to around a couple dozen on McCaskill’s.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Awww.claireonline.com+stem&
btnG=Google+Search
You’d think he’d at least hype his co-sponsorship on S.681. Nada.
Quote:
Originally posted by Razza:
I can't find anything that supports this position either, but then I can't prove a negative so the burden lies with Fox to produce evidence to support his claim, barring that, I have to call BS on this one.
Yeah. This is the one part of the ad that needs to be proven to me. Otherwise, as far as what is said, I don’t think there’s really anything controversial about the ad.
Quote:
Originally posted by Razza:
I don't want to turn into a Rush defender, but he does talk about this on his website, and how the video has been manipulated to exclude the audo, here's the link:
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_102606/content/correcting_
the_record.guest.html
…
I suppose if you believe he was mocking him, I'd have to agree with you, but I'm sure there are Rush fans who would tend to disagree about whether or not he was mocking Fox. Personally, I don't think that was his intent, but I can see where people who don't like him would come to that conclusion.
I read what Rush had to say. I actually watched the feed from the crooks and liars link that I posted above (which was from Olbermann’s show). His gesturing was mimicking Michael J Fox. There’s no other reasonable explanation for that. He posited, in his statements, that Michael J Fox was either off his medication or acting. That’s calling Fox a faker, in my book.
I’m sure you’re right that there are Rush fans who don’t think Fox was being mocked. I can only speak from personal experience. I used to listen to Rush. Spent years doing it, as a matter of fact. One of the reasons was because he would attack and make fun of those on the left. I loved that. And, based on the callers who interacted with him on the show, a lot of his listeners felt the same way. Rush’s main value to the modern American conservative movement is that he operates on the other side of the decency boundary. He attacks their opponents. He gets down and dirty. Other conservatives can appear more rational because Rush does the dirty work.
Quote:
Originally posted by Razza:
I agree that Limbaugh was challenging the messenger, but so what? When a public figure injects himself into the political debate, they are fair game. Their health condition does not exclude them from criticism, nor should it. Limbaugh believes Fox's political position is wrong, so because Fox suffers from a debilitating disease means he should not question those positions or criticize the person who espoused them? Under that logic, Mel Gibson shouldn't be in any trouble for his recent comments since he is obviously suffering from alcholism, a debilitating illness in it's own right.
But Rush didn’t quest
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Let's go back to what Rush said. Not what we think he should have said or the points that we may disagree about in terms of embryonic stem cell research, but what he actually said, which was He is exaggerating the effects of the disease. He's moving all around and shaking and it's purely an act. . . . This is really shameless of Michael J. Fox. Either he didn't take his medication or he's acting.
Now, going backwards thru the link that wsa provided, thsi is what came up:
Quote:I like to backtrack claims, but the doctor who is cited over and over remains mysteriously nameless. Why do you suppose that is? To avoid a libel suit, perhaps? It makes me distrust the entire claim.
When Fox is trying to win support to research he is on solid ground with this move. When he is lying about a Republican’s position on curing Parkinson’s then he is being duplicitous. As I pointed out in two posts already (here and here), the embryonic stem cell research angle from Fox is pure snake oil, and in violent opposition to one of the leading researchers Fox funds. That researcher is the one who noted Embryonic Stem Cell treatments for Parkinson’s - the supposed research Fox claims Republicans are trying to outlaw - cause tumors. The adult stem cell therapies by the same doctor avoid embryonic cells all together and use the patients own cells to correct the damage.
There is one other point to this: MJ Fox has also done commercials for Republicans who also support stem cell research, so it's not as if MJ Fox is partisan.
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Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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