Bush 'taken aback' by Musharraf comment
POSTED BY: FutureMrsFIllion
UPDATED: Saturday, September 23, 2006 04:28
VIEWED: 2283
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Soon you will all learn to love Big Brother.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Am I the only one terrified by the implications of this blanket statement?
People keep mis-remembering it as "You're either with us or you're against us", which is a tautology and a relatively benign statement ...
But "you're either with us OR YOU'RE WITH THE TERRORISTS" is malign. How I read this is - either you click your heels and salute Bush in everything he does, OR you're a terrorist and worthy of, oh - I don't know - warrantless spying? being disappeared for years at a time with no charges, no info to your family, and no lawyer?
The administration has no clue that the US is a nation under the rule of law, and not a dictatorship of the executive. And then there are Bush's supporters, who think this is all just dandy.
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Oh, BTW - did you notice what really had Bush going? Not the idea, just the harshness of the words used. Maybe he should have his admin take classes in how to say it like mafioso:
"Mushy, we wouldn't want to see anything happen to your nice pretty country, now would we? Especially since you've made so much progress getting out of the stone age. Now, your neighbor to the north, they're not lookin' so smart. But you know better. Don'cha. We're just lookin' out for 'ya. 
"
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Quote:Don't forget Bush is the guy who looked deeply into Putin's eyes and instantly developed a serious man-crush.
Apparently when Bush looked Musharraf deep in the eyes and delared him to be a 'friend', Bush didn't see the fear.
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Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"You're either with us or you're against us", which is a tautology and a relatively benign statement ...
But it's not a tautology and it's not benign. That's what's so frustrating about it. It's totally possible fit neither category. You could say, for example, "I don't support terrorists and the United State's so-called 'War on Terror' is stupid. (I say it all the time.)
It's not benign, and in fact is dangerously stupid, because it expresses Bush's decision to see everyone who doesn't support him as an enemy. That's creating a lot more enemies than necessary.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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Quote:Or they SAY they're on our side out of fear, but they change the election rules to allow more mullahs into local government and hide ObL on the border, then extort more aid out of the USA 'cause we're stupid enough to pay it.
I think I see how this one turns out, back to the scary red map. I don't know which way it would like to go. If pakistan sides with us, that's good, because we don't get our ass kicked, China is kept in check, etc. OTOH, if they dont side with us, then we *do* get our asses kicked, the war on terror is a big failure, and we have to give up, which would be good for us, and it would mean no one would follow our dumb example
---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:Or they SAY they're on our side out of fear, but they change the election rules to allow more mullahs into local government and hide ObL on the border, then extort more aid out of the USA 'cause we're stupid enough to pay it.
I think I see how this one turns out, back to the scary red map. I don't know which way it would like to go. If pakistan sides with us, that's good, because we don't get our ass kicked, China is kept in check, etc. OTOH, if they dont side with us, then we *do* get our asses kicked, the war on terror is a big failure, and we have to give up, which would be good for us, and it would mean no one would follow our dumb example
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Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
Hell even on a smaller level, they join the pro US Iraqi and Afgani forces... take the weapons and training available to them.... then wait to put a bayonnet up some infidel's ass when the chance presents itself.
Hey, worked for the Viet Cong
" Fighting them at their own game
Murder for freedom the stab in the back
Women and children and cowards attack
Run to the hills run for your lives "
http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/ironmaiden/liveafterdeath.html#12
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Sig, G.,
All possibilities
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SergeantX,
I may have not stated myself clearly. And we've had strong disagreements in the past. But please don't think there is division where there is none.
Perhaps you remember that I've been harping on this EXACT issue ever since Bush said it. Every time I’ve noticed that people have misquoted it I correct them, and I opine (yet again) how dangerous it is.
When people misremember it as “you’re either for us or against us” it gets overlooked as a common piece of rhetoric, a generic effectless division of ‘us’ and ‘not us’. That form of the phrase does have a common interpretation as lame and halt.
It is far from it. In its original form it is the basis (I believe) for warrantless spying on Americans, the USPATRIOT Act, outing an undercover agent, smearing as ‘unpatriotic’ anyone who disagrees with Bush’s stillborn foreign policies, and other administration evils. I thought I was clear and have been clear all along.
This is not harmless rhetoric. It is insane and evil.
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Indeed. I didn't mean to sound like I was disagreeing.
I just get so sick of Bush's camp playing games with the language like this. They'd have us give it a pass 'cause Bush is so awkward with his speech. Like he's just a folksy 'bubbba that don't know no better'. But the sloganeering and sound bites are carefully constructed by whomever is pulling his strings. This crap is designed for its psychological effect.
Just like the 'War on Terror'. It's fucking newspeak psycho-politics. The democrats buy into it, the press buys into it and no one questions the premises and assumptions they hide in all their wordsmithing. It frames the debate, sets up false dichotomies and in general puts up a smokescreen to prevent real criticism of their policies.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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