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Where did Mal get the money for Serenity?

POSTED BY: ncbrowncoat
UPDATED: Friday, January 20, 2017 21:40
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SHINYAPPLE

Sunday, September 24, 2006 5:41 PM

BEB:

Actually, I stole...hrm....researched it in the Serenity RPG book. But I had read the same stuff elsewhere.

Capn Mark

CHRONICTHEHEDGEHOG

Sunday, September 24, 2006 7:37 PM

The idea that Zoe was raised on a ship comes from the shooting script of HoG:

Quote:

WASH
And this beautiful baby of ours, you
don't mine that it's going to grow up
on a spaceship?

ZOE
Worked fine for me.

-------------------------------------------------

I do not kill with my hand.
He who kills with his hand has forgotten the face of his father.
I kill with my heart.

CITIZEN

Sunday, September 24, 2006 9:06 PM

Interesting thread, to jump in a bit late:

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
I figured all those little moons, given Earth normal gravity, as Zoe says in the pilot, entailed the application of an artificial gravity generator. Similar to the one Serenity uses, but on a planetary scale.

That's basically what I thought as well. In fact I'm sure if seen it mentioned in a somewhat canon source. Whatever it's about the only way (save increasing the bodies density) to ensure all these diverse bodies have Earth normal gravity.

Quote:
Then, I further surmised, "What would happen on say, Earth's Moon, if such a generator were switched off and the Moon's natural 1/16th G was instantaneously returned?" Answer: The Earth normal atmosphere -- at Earth normal pressure -- would leap away from the satellite's surface like a coke bottle shaken and then uncapped, and uproot everything from vegetation and its topsoil, to a significant amount of surface water, to the majority of manmade structures, as though sucked away by an enormous shop-vac.

Not exactly, it's not like getting a hole in a space craft. The atmospheric gases would take a very long time to leave the body, years. Besides there's no 'bottle neck' so there would be no pressurised release of gas to 'suck' anything from the surface.

Quote:
So, there's your destruction of Shadow. Not one warhead fired. Simply an executive override of the gravity generator from an orbiting cruiser-cum-administrative office, and poof!, everything bigger than a burrowing rodent dead. In fact, if you wanted to minimize the damage so you could reuse the planet without losing several hundred years of terraforming work: Turn off the generator for only an hour or two, then turn it back on.

I believe its mentioned somewhere that Shadow was destroyed by orbital bombing.

Quote:
Sudden reduction of gravity to hold a "sea" to the planetary body, in addition to the sudden removal of atmospheric pressure to push down on its surface (think 'surface tension'), might cause it to appear to "boil", even though it might not actually boil as a result of tremendous heat of any kind, but rather as a reaction to a sudden lessening of the weight of air pushing down on it.

Well as pressure drops so does boiling point. That's why they say your blood will boil in vacuum (though that's not actually true, you're body can sustain internal pressure even in vacuum, in fact people have survived vacuum pressure loss of over a minute, but that’s by the by).

Quote:
So, is the Visual Companion canon? Or is it like KRAD's novelization, which Joss said was more a work of Keith's own speculative imaginings than anything Whedon actually had in mind? Still, I've got to get me one. I wonder if they sell them at Borders...

I think so, I tend to think of it like this:
FireFly/Serenity/Books written by Joss: Canon
Books not written by Joss (VC's, Novelisations): Canon except where they directly contradict the above.
RPGs and Fan speculation: Not canon but as good as you can get where they don't contradict the above.

Quote:
As one further illustration: The liquids in the human body are kept there with the significant assistance of atmospheric pressure. If one suddenly finds oneself in the near-total 'vacuum' of outer space without a pressure suit, your blood and other bodily juices will appear to boil out of your unprotected skin and eyes. Same thing with a "sea", with its containing atmospheric pressure removed.

They boil for real, boiling point drops (though if the temperature is low enough they'll flash freeze instead

) But as I said this is actually a popular misconception. Your body can hold it's own pressure; people have survived vacuum exposure with little more than some swelling and passing out.

That scene in event horizen where that guy almost pops? BS

.

Straight from NASA:

Quote:
You do not explode and your blood does not boil because of the containing

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ASARIAN

Monday, September 25, 2006 6:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by PaganPaul:

BTW, liquid water exposed to vacume will boil away at any temperature, so your reference to "boil the sea" makes perfect sense.

Fascinating theory. :) But, in that scenario, is the sky then not EXACTLY what they took away from Mal? "boil the sea" and "you can't take the sky from me" are hard to reconcile in this theory.

But if we're just talking about atmosphere, then it's really the best theory I heard so far. In fact, the *only* theory that makes any sense of "boil the sea*. Great job, Zoid.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

ZOID

Monday, September 25, 2006 10:12 AM

citizen:

Yeah, the 'coke bottle' visualization is inexact. But the Earth's atmosphere is held in place -- at a significant pressure -- by its gravity. If that gravity were immediately reduced to 1/16th, I still contend that the pressure would be immediately released in an equal-and-opposite 'rebound' effect. Now it may be hard to get one's head wrapped around such a notion, since there are no everyday circumstances in which such a hypothesis could be tested. (NB: Although doubtless there are math guys lurking around here who could give you an approximation of attendant forces and effects)

But our atmosphere is a very large thing, kept at a large pressure (compared to the surrounding vacuum of space) for approximately a mile in depth before it even begins to appreciably thin out, around the entirety of the globe. Not only is the atmo of our planet held to the surface at such pressure by gravity, but so is everything else, like trees and soil (think of the regolith shooting away for yards as Armstrong(?) one-handed a golf ball for a mile-long drive), and buildings and cows. Immediately reducing gravity to 1/16th would not only effect the pressurized atmo, but the apparent 'weight' of everything on the planetary body.

This effect of contained pressure (by gravity) being released would be exaggerated on a smaller body like our Moon; similar though not entirely analogous to a coke bottle, since the reason a coke bottle spurts if you shake it is due to an entirely different mechanism in the first place. I was just trying to help some one imagine the force.

What you left out in the NASA piece is that, if you don't squeeze your eyes very tightly closed when exposed to 'vacuum' (which is really just 'space normal pressure' and indicative of our Earthly biases), you'll be blinded as the Earth-norm pressurized fluids rupture your eyeballs. But you're right otherwise. The Russians in particular have found out that human skin works well enough as a p-suit to survive for a few minutes, in a dire emergency. At the far end of that couple of minutes though lies a lot of hemorrhaging...

Lastly, like I said above, although I never read or heard it anywhere, I always sorta presumed Zoe was career military, and a military brat. Which would mean that she had to be former Alliance, like her daddy (and mommy?). While non-Core Worlds might have militia, most of these wouldn't amount to much more than a glorified fire brigade. Who would they defend their home soil against? Hostile natives? Well, there weren't any. Roving bands of criminals? That'd be a job for police; you might need the occasional posse, but never a standing army.

Nope. If you were career military, it'd have to be in a standing army, and the only one of those there'd be would be in the Sino-Anglo Alliance. ...Or at least, by my reckoning. I likewise figure that for historical reasons, a Chinese Emperor (as opposed to their current form of government) might be amused by having a subservient class of samurai -- with its vassal lords paying fealty to him rather than to a Japanese emperor -- regardless whether he kept them on space ships or a planet of their own. That whole China v. Japan thing has been going on for hundreds-if-not-thousands of years now, and it's still on the simmer, today.

Point is, I intended to include the Japan v. China theme as a Firefly-future consideration in "Shadow", and the samurai aspect was further used to subtly illustrate a different side of the examination of slavery in the greater story. (NB: Slavery?! Yeah, well, we know Mal's got a distinct hatred for the 'institution', so I try to imagine why.)

But, lest anyone accuse me otherwise, "Shadow" is strictly a product of my own imagination. I only got the Visual Companion this past weekend, and was more than a little relieved to find that it doesn't necessarily negate anything I've written thus far. So, that's how far from being 'informed' I am. I'm just guessing from obse

CYBERSNARK

Monday, September 25, 2006 3:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
since there are no everyday circumstances in which such a hypothesis could be tested.

Hmmm. . .

*quietly resumes work on Doomsday Weapon*

Purely in the name of scientific curiosity, of course.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

CITIZEN

Monday, September 25, 2006 3:56 PM

Gravity is holding on to the atmosphere, but the atmosphere it self is too, the atmosphere itself would act to prevent the gases from escaping at a preditious rate.

I'm pretty sure that lose of atmosphere due to reduced gravity would happen in a time span of hours, but more likely years.

Quote:
Lastly, like I said above, although I never read or heard it anywhere, I always sorta presumed Zoe was career military, and a military brat. Which would mean that she had to be former Alliance, like her daddy (and mommy?). While non-Core Worlds might have militia, most of these wouldn't amount to much more than a glorified fire brigade. Who would they defend their home soil against? Hostile natives? Well, there weren't any. Roving bands of criminals? That'd be a job for police; you might need the occasional posse, but never a standing army.

The Alliance brought peace to the galaxy. Rival worlds fought each other, as rival nations do now, that requires a standing army. It just so happens that the Alliance's was the largest.

On the subject of slavery, I think the Alliance is also anti slavery, remembering we only actually see it on worlds with basically no Alliance presence.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

MAL4PREZ

Monday, September 25, 2006 4:51 PM

Hey Zoid -

I don't know about any rebound effect, but if gravity suddenly shut off, everything on a planet would definitely take off because of the planet's spin.

Interestingly enough, I am also halfway through a fic that works greatly through flashbacks, the main part of which is Mal and Zoe, meeting, fighting together, post-war etc. I'm mostly done writing that part, but I don't want to read your sampler until I'm completely done so I don't end up accidentally filching your stuff (you know how good storylines kind of get stuck in your brain...)

But I look forward to reading it! It sounds like you've really thought things out. And it'll be interesting to see your approach - I love it when similar stories happen, because the finished thing is always so very different.

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

MYCROFTXXX

Monday, September 25, 2006 7:17 PM

My thoughts on how Mal was able to procure Serenity...

After WWII, there were so many surplus P-51 Mustangs that, presumably, you could buy them for a buck a piece. I think this is an oversimplification but the fact is, after a war there are usually large stockpiles of "demilitarized" vehicles that end up being melted down for scrap.

My guess is Serenity was long past its expiration date but, like the DC-3, was a very servicable craft. Even today, there are DC-3s that are flying in perfect shape while others, a few cornfields over are total wrecks. I think Serenity fell somewhere in between.

Now, as to how Mal bought her, my best guess is that after the war, he and Zoe did the merc' thing for a while as private security much like Jayne did/does for the crew now. Probably got paid halfway decent if you didn't look too closely at what it was you were guarding.

What I find interesting is that if Mal and Zoe were so tight then why was she surprised he had bought the ship? If the two had stayed close after the war she'd have known more about his decision to buy the ship.

So, to summarize... the ship was bargain basement priced being seriously war surplus and too expenseive to haul to the smelter. Mal had taken a number of private security jobs to earn a small stake in this new endeavor (this also explains his connections with so many other ship operators.) Once he bought, or at least put a deposit on it, he contacted Zoe and asked her to partner on getting the bird airborne and making money.

--

Given a choice between the earth-that-is and the 'verse-that-will-be I'll take the latter.

宁静

MYCROFTXXX

Monday, September 25, 2006 7:27 PM

On the subject of turning off the gravity generator, one thing that's been overlooked to this point is the effect of centrepital force. Remember, Shadow is a spining planet. If the gravity was suddenly reduced to 1/16th of what it was, the atmosphere would spin off like a spiral galaxy. The mass of the atmo would tend to make it travel in a straight line tangent to the point where the gravity was suddenly turned off. This would not be a long term event. IMO, it would happen very quickly like a strong hurricane blowing everything in its path off into the sky. If you've ever lived through a hurricane you know just how powerful a full on blow can be.

BTW, if you were to visit Shadow today I'd bet you would find a fine ring like that around Saturn consisting of planetary regolith, ice and other debris pulled up by the release of the atmosphere. A dead rock but a pretty one.

--

Given a choice between the earth-that-is and the 'verse-that-will-be I'll take the latter.

宁静