The Fascist Ideology of Star Trek
POSTED BY: citizen
UPDATED: Sunday, June 7, 2026 16:12
VIEWED: 22000
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Quote:How is that fascist?
Originally posted by SimonWho:
The fascist part of both Firefly and Star Trek is mostly cultural in that they state quite unequivocably that the US will survive and be the dominant force.
Not that I agree with your premise that either Star Trek or Firefly presumes the continued existence of the US. In neither case is the US stated or even implied to exist at all, much less hold any kind of dominance. In fact, in both cases, a new government, that is most certainly not the US, is the dominant political force.
Firefly does assume a cultural continuity with the current political state, something Star Trek doesn’t really do. And the cultural continuity does not assume US cultural dominance. Chinese language and culture that is so heavily integrated into implied culture is clearly making the statement that no single culture dominates, and certainly not the US.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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The occasional swear word isn't proof of cultural integration. And going from this world where the US is 240,000,000 people in a population of 6,300,000,000 to the future worlds of Star Trek and Firefly where 85%+ of all the people we meet are American.
I get that they're both US TV shows but even Buffy and Angel found room for full time Brits on hand. Whereas Firefly leads us to presume that barely anyone other than the US made it this far.
Just because they don't call the Alliance "The United States", that doesn't mean that it isn't the US under another identity. And given the character of those we've seen in the verse, I'd argue that it is.
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Good read, but somebody please help me out: I see the word fascism thrown around a lot in here (well, in RWE). So much so and in such circumstances that I began to question if I actually knew what it meant. So, I looked it up:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fascism&x=0&y=0
Quote:
...a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
or, if you prefer:
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=fascismF
Quote:
...a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.
So, it means what I thought and I still just don't see it. I'm not a "Trekkie", but I like Star Trek and have seen all the movies and a more than a handful of the shows (both old and new) and other than the centralized government, I haven't seen this kind of behavior demonstated.
Is this conduct exhibited by the "Federation" in some episode or movie that I am not aware of? I'm not being a smart ass, I'm asking? The examples offered by the author just don't jive, but I haven't seen everything. Yet, I am admittedly skeptical from what I have seen.
I do, however, know I've seen all of Firefly and I can't even see the Alliance as fascist. They may be the bad guys and I sure as Hell woulda' fought for the Independents (maybe, I might be a coward, hasn't been tested), but fascism in either context seems, at least to me, like a bit of a stretch.
His observations on the whole physics of space travel and the flaws in Firefly were interesting though. I had not considered any of it before. In my defense, I'm not a science kinda' guy... Oh, the Panthers just scored...
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Fascism is a governmental system that exalts the state over the individual.
Mussolini defined Fascism as a right-wing collectivism, opposed to democracy.
The authors main problem seems to be that the federation doesn't use money, and everyone know only capitalism works...
But their is a certain Star Trek attitude of working for the whole Human race which I suppose could be considered somewhat of a fascist ideal.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:I think the author is implying something about the message of Star Trek. There is an implied Leftist ideology that has existed in the Star Trek message sense the Next Generation. The idea is that Star Trek seems to embody what is essentially the basic propaganda of Fascist/Marxist politics, an egalitarian utopian society in which no one wants for anything and everyone happily trudges along working, not for their own dreams, but for the good of the State.
Originally posted by FellowTraveler:
So, it means what I thought and I still just don't see it. I'm not a "Trekkie", but I like Star Trek and have seen all the movies and a more than a handful of the shows (both old and new) and other than the centralized government, I haven't seen this kind of behavior demonstated.
Is this conduct exhibited by the "Federation" in some episode or movie that I am not aware of? I'm not being a smart ass, I'm asking? The examples offered by the author just don't jive, but I haven't seen everything. Yet, I am admittedly skeptical from what I have seen.
Now the older version of Star Trek didn’t seem to carry this message, even though it did suggest it. Captain Kirk seemed to demonstrate a very individualist nature. In many ways he was a lot like Mal, and that was the intent. He was supposed to be somewhat of a gunslinger in space. And in fact the whole premise of Star Trek was that of a Western in space (Star Trek was originally pitched as “Wagon Train to the Stars.”) It wasn’t until the ST:TNG came out that a very distinct Left-leaning Intellectualist ideology replaced the “Wagon Train.”
The author bases the notion of fascism, specifically, on the implied militarism of TNG, which, once again was the propaganda used by the Nazis. That military service was the righteous way of life even for young children, and essentially the only way of life, sanctioned by the government for most people.
As for whether any of this is actually the message behind Star Trek:TNG is open to debate; and even if it is, it is also debatable whether it is a bad thing. The implied argument in Star Trek seems to be that the Marxist utopian society was realized through technology, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that Star Trek presumes that Marxism could work in the absence of certain technology. As I said, earlier Star Trek assumes that Scarcity is no longer the fundamental principle of economics. I personally have always liked the implied militarisms in Star Trek, though that’s a personal choice I’ve made in my own life. In the fictional world of Star Trek, where there seems to be little apart from military and government service to the Federation of Planets, I can see how some might be put off.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Except, Finn, Fascism is Rightist, the only people who say otherwise seem to be those who are right leaning and can't accept that their chosen philosophy is anything but perfect.
Although the implied militarism is about a military star ship, kind of like saying JAG implies America is militarist. The Hunt for Red October is based largely in the American Military, so I guess it's fair to assume that, based on that film, all there is, is the American military.
We've seen life outside of Starfleet, and there's plenty to civilian life, Picard’s family have a vineyard, Jake Sisko is a writer and so on. Is it really that strange that a show based on a military star ship would show a certain amount of militarism?
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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The only reason fascism and the Nazis are perceived as right-wing is because they were seen as being to the right of the Communist in the early part of the 20th c., which isn’t saying much. In reality the Nazis were self-proclaimed socialist themselves and in practice not far from Communists. All property (whether land or capital), including that corporately and privately owned, was under the direct administration of the government. In fact, almost all of the economic policies of the Nazi regime are Left-wing in nature.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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And Mussolini said very openly that fascism was right wing. In left wing socialist ideologies the state provides, in fascism people work for the betterment of the state, this isn't the same thing, it's the opposite.
I understand the rights desire to think it's 'sh*t don't stink' but that doesn't mean that it has any basis in reality. Integration of government and corporations is not a thing of the left, it happened with the right wing conservatives of 19th century Britain, nothing leftist about them.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:You’ve obviously drawn some very fine lines between supposed “opposites.” Believe what you want.
Originally posted by citizen:
And Mussolini said very openly that fascism was right wing. In left wing socialist ideologies the state provides, in fascism people work for the betterment of the state, this isn't the same thing, it's the opposite.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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The Drumhead and Insurrection are the first two that come to mind (There are many more) showing how easily we can slip into a facist state of mind when we percieve ourselves as having 'evolved beyond that'.
Good message.
Chrisisall
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