Judge Throws out wireless searches and why it don't mean a thing.
POSTED BY: Hero
UPDATED: Sunday, August 20, 2006 19:32
VIEWED: 2071
PAGE 1 of 3
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The American Civil Liberties Union filed the lawsuit on behalf of journalists, scholars and lawyers who say the program has made it difficult for them to do their jobs. They believe many of their overseas contacts are likely targets of the program, which involves wiretapping conversations between people in the U.S. and people in other countries.
Today a Federal Judge, Anna Diggs Taylor (a Carter appointee...wow), ruled that the Terrorist Surveillance Program's warrantless wiretaps were unconstitutional and ordered the program stopped (pauses while the leftists to cheer and the terrorists dial thier bomb suppliers).
What does this mean? Nothing. First of all the NSA will appeal the ruling and the Court of Appeals will stay execution of the order.
Second, the ruling will be overturned. Why? Beause the question of whether or not the Constitution has been violated is not relevant to the case. As the above quote notes, the ACLU filed this suit on behalf of persons who are not the subject of the program. There is a black letter rule that says a person cannot assert the Constitutional rights of another, in this case the journalists, lawyers, etc. are asserting the rights of their "overseas contacts" aka Osama Bin Laddin and company.
So before PirateNews and the board's liberals start calling FireflyinOsama and the board's terrorists, you might want to be aware of the simple fact that 'you can't stop the signal'.
Also, suppose the NSA simply refuses to comply. You can't arrest the NSA. At most they can sue the NSA, but legally your constitutional rights have a nominal value...$1. The worst thing is that the Court can exclude any recorded calls from trial...but who cares if it stops an attack? So legally I say screw the court's ruling and listen to everybody you need to listen too...for now anyway.
H
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Dude, screw you. 
While you're busy pissing on the Constitution, the document that, if obeyed and respected, keeps THIS country from becoming as bad as tinpot dictatorships in third world countries, SOME of us are busy trying to prevent it from being used as toilet paper by this administration, and a damned lot of them live here in Michigan.
When those jackasses on capitol hill damned near unilaterally agreed (410-8) to support the evil menace that is Israel in their pyschotic overreaction against Hezbollah, three of the eight who opposed this lunatic stupidity were reps from Michigan.
When most of congress was blindly cheering this administrations damn-fool rush to stick our arm in the meat grinder that is the middle-east, and enabling the more excessive abuses in the name of 'national security' it was John Conyers who had the balls to stand up and say "What the hell are you maniacs doing?!"
When it comes to holding our dumbass bunglers in the white house accountable for negligence, stupidity and down right incompetence, Conyers has been right up front every time, and although I do not like him personally, and do not agree with some of his beliefs (regarding copyright law, mostly) we do agree that there are more important issues in front of us right now.
Our Governor doesn't take any shit either, being the former state attorney general and the very best at it this state has seen in a long, long time, weathering endless smear campaigns by ReThugs who offer no ACTUAL solutions beyond roadblocking and sabotage of anything they can't take credit for.
Ms. Taylor did the right thing, and in response to your asinine comment...
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suppose the NSA simply refuses to comply. You can't arrest the NSA.
That makes the NSA a terrorist organization, something I have always asserted that they are, their very charter, what they were ever given any authority or budget under to begin with, specifically FORBIDS the kind of behavior they have engaged in, and if the rule of law, and the highest law in the land, does not apply to them, then how are we any fekkin different from the Taliban ?
I am not one whit opposed to using military force to dismantle an alphabet agency gone rogue who refuses to comply - who the hell is running this country, dammit, them, or us ?
And hell yes, old and gimpy that I am, I'd be the first in line if they'd have me to help do it, cause these asswipes are a greater threat to us than any other terrorist organisation.
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legally your constitutional rights have a nominal value...$1
And now that you've shown your true colors, I think maybe you might wanna close that piehole before you dig yourself in any deeper.
You don't support america, you don't even support the IDEA of america, and if that's what you believe, then you are on the wrong side of the atlantic in this engagement, mister.
There's only really one difference between people like you, and the Taliban, and that's who you think should be in charge of your little whole-world theocratic dictatorship...
So, tell me, how are you one whit better ?
And in the meantime, keep your piehole shut instead of flaming and sabotage of people trying to fix the mess ignorant morons like you helped create.. if yer gonna take issue with what Michigan is doing to un-fubar the situation, then either bring something to the table, offer useful ideas, or shut the hell up.
-Frem
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:Quote:
The American Civil Liberties Union filed the lawsuit on behalf of journalists, scholars and lawyers who say the program has made it difficult for them to do their jobs. They believe many of their overseas contacts are likely targets of the program, which involves wiretapping conversations between people in the U.S. and people in other countries.
Today a Federal Judge, Anna Diggs Taylor (a Carter appointee...wow), ruled that the Terrorist Surveillance Program's warrantless wiretaps were unconstitutional and ordered the program stopped (pauses while the leftists to cheer and the terrorists dial thier bomb suppliers).
What does this mean? Nothing. First of all the NSA will appeal the ruling and the Court of Appeals will stay execution of the order.
Second, the ruling will be overturned. Why? Beause the question of whether or not the Constitution has been violated is not relevant to the case. As the above quote notes, the ACLU filed this suit on behalf of persons who are not the subject of the program. There is a black letter rule that says a person cannot assert the Constitutional rights of another, in this case the journalists, lawyers, etc. are asserting the rights of their "overseas contacts" aka Osama Bin Laddin and company.
So before PirateNews and the board's liberals start calling FireflyinOsama and the board's terrorists, you might want to be aware of the simple fact that 'you can't stop the signal'.
Also, suppose the NSA simply refuses to comply. You can't arrest the NSA. At most they can sue the NSA, but legally your constitutional rights have a nominal value...$1. The worst thing is that the Court can exclude any recorded calls from trial...but who cares if it stops an attack? So legally I say screw the court's ruling and listen to everybody you need to listen too...for now anyway.
H
And you say all this like its a good thing.
We are The Forsaken - We aim to burn! and we don't need no stinkin levels!
one of the Forsaken TM
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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Dude, screw you.
Nice start. An intellectual rebuttal of all my legal and political points. Now my equally intellegent response...
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and a damned lot of them live here in Michigan....if yer gonna take issue with what Michigan is doing to un-fubar the situation, then either bring something to the table, offer useful ideas, or shut the hell up.
Took me a minute to figure out what this Michigan business was. Turns out you think that Michigan is somehow involved in this case. Its not a Michigan court, its not a Michigan case, its not a Michigan judge...its the Federal District Court and it could just as easily be the Norther District of Alabama as the anywhere else. So I'm not taking issue with Michigan (about this...I've been to Detroit and Michigan has enough issues of its own without me adding anything too it), I'm taking issue with a Federal Judge who, like a lot of District Judges, gets something dead wrong that could lead to a lot of just plain dead by hampering our ability to defend ourselves from the folk with the bombs in the baby formula.
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to support the evil menace that is Israel
Now you see, you've got alot in common with the folk with the bombs and frequent flyer miles. You hate Isreal AND you don't want us listening in on the terrorists. You wrap some of it up in Constitutional rhetoric, but thats what you are arguing for. Perhaps you should change your name to Fremd-sama Bin Laddin...I'm just sayin.
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it was John Conyers who had the balls to stand up
Can't disagree. I'm no Conyers fan, but the man does have the balls to be dead wrong on every issue. He's also one of two who support the draft.
Personally I think we shouldn't be drafting people, but Mr. Conyers disagrees. I understand his reasoning though. Can't campaign bitch and moaning about the draft if there isn't a draft, so he needs the draft so he can shout "Vietnam!" and keep folk from laughing at him.
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Ms. Taylor did the right thing, and in response to your asinine comment...Quote:
suppose the NSA simply refuses to comply. You can't arrest the NSA.
That makes the NSA a terrorist organization
Missed the day they taught about Andrew Jackson..."they made the ruling let them enforce it" or the 'switch in time that saved nine' under Roosevelt. Its hard to enforce rulings like this if the President really does not agree. Not impossible, but difficult, if for no other reason then the NSA can just keep doing it in secret. Sure, they can't use their stuff in court, but they can use it to stop attacks, and thats pretty good.
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And hell yes, old and gimpy that I am, I'd be the first in line if they'd have me to help do it, cause these asswipes are a greater threat to us than any other terrorist organisation.
Perhaps, but not today I think. Tell you what, lets defeat the terrorist menace today and then we can go after the 'evil govt. menace' tomorrow.
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legally your constitutional rights have a nominal value...$1
And now that you've shown your true colors, I think maybe you might wanna close that piehole before you dig yourself in any deeper.
Yeah, we have this entity called the Supreme Court and they make final rulings on things such as this. The Court has ruled that Civil Rights have a nominal value of $1. This is because many times there is no financial loss associated with the loss of a liberty. Sometimes no medical bills, no property damage, no pain and suffering and so on. If there is no harm, then there is no foul (its a long time legal principal) so the Supreme Court invented a legal fiction to assign nominal value to Civil Rights to create a means by which courts could rightfully hear certain cases.
And if you think about it, lack of actual damages means no case. By allowing nominal actual damages, not only can the cases be heard, they can now have an av
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Again, screw you.
It wasn't meant as a rebuttal, it was meant as an insult, and quite sincere.
I know it's a Federal Judge boyo, but you seem to have missed that I was pointing out, quite pridefully, that a damned lot of the folk trying to shoot down ignorant stupidity in the name of policy come from THIS state, something I *am* proud of, and I think I have a right to be.
As for dead wrong and just plain dead, perhaps you'd care to explain what we have accomplished with this idiotic, asinine stupidity so far ?
We're not any safer, and the larger you make a dragnet the more garbage you dredge up, the longer it takes to sort, and the greater chance of completely missing an actual plot as opposed to doing any good, not to mention it degrades privacy and thus impacts everyone directly - if we become as bad as they are, we hand victory to them, because our way of life will be every bit as wretched as if they had come over here and conquered us.
As for bombs in baby formula - get off the fear wagon, jackass, the primary threat is some dickhead humping a stinger over the unguarded Rio Grande and using it from outside the fence while we're busy feeling up the passengers at the check-in.
Fearmongering and political maneuvering are no substitute for actual security.
You're damned right I hate Israel, having "done my homework" unlike you, I know now that they are no friend of anyones, and if you wanna "Listen to the terrorists" I'd be starting with COMVERSE, AMDOCS, AIPAC, and the ADL (who got caught in their own plot to commit terrorist bombings against us not long ago, mind you.) trust me, as I said, I've done my homework on the matter, you don't wanna go there with me right now, at all.
I may not agree with Conyers on every point, as I told you, but he's tried to hold this administration accountable, which is admirable, and more than I can say for cheerleaders like you who are helping them lead us right off a cliff.
Unlike you, I swore an Oath to uphold and defend our Nation and the US Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, see - and if the NSA chooses by their actions to defy their charter, (proven fact) the rule of law, and the supreme law of the land, that qualifies them as a domestic enemy, period.
And you did not say CIVIL rights, you said CONSTITUTIONAL rights, which are absolutely, incontrivertably, not to be infringed, and especially not to be flushed down the crapper - it is the supreme law of the land, above and beyond even the supreme court, and the bedrock of the foundation of our entire country.
And if you believe they aren't worth a damned thing, then you do not believe in America.
I would also dispute that you have an education, or if so, you must have seriously bailed on history and civics class, that's for damned sure.
I want us to defeat them - you want us to become them.
-Frem
PS- You might consider stopping now, cause it's not like I am arguing with you, I'm just helping you humilate yourself, really... but if you'd like some more rope, by all means, continue to jabber away.
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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Again, screw you.
And my reply...
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THIS state, something I *am* proud of, and I think I have a right to be.
You have a right to be proud of Michigan. Michigan and Detroit in particular are cesspools of filth, violence, drugs, terror cells, and everbody know the best cars are made in Toledo, but be proud. I've been all over the country Cleveland, Philadelphia, DC, Atlanta, etc and with the possible exception of East St. Louis Detroit is without a doubt the worst City in the entire nation...but its all American filth so be proud.
(*Note: I am from Ohio so my opinion in this matter is colored by the ongoing rivalry between the No. 1 ranked Ohio State Buckeyes and some "school" located in Michigan. I encourage everyone who can to visit Michigan for yourselves and make your own judgements about the smell.)
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As for dead wrong and just plain dead, perhaps you'd care to explain what we have accomplished with this idiotic, asinine stupidity so far ?
Attack after attack. No end of 9/11s...no wait, I got that backwards...no REPEAT of 9/11. We might be attacked again tomorrow. Can't stop them all...but they sure haven't gotten a shot off since then. BTW, are you part of the cell buying all those cell phones at Walmat up that way?
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As for bombs in baby formula - get off the fear wagon, jackass,
Don't blame me, I didn't think to put liquid explosives in the baby bottle and then send mommy and baby on a plane ride.
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You're damned right I hate Israel
Like I said. You hate Isreal, the terrorist hate Isreal. You hate the NSA's terrorist surveillance program, they hate it too. You advocate violance against US agencies, so do they. I reall think you need to reexamine which side of the line your standing on.
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Unlike you, I swore an Oath to uphold and defend our Nation and the US Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic
Took an oath myself when they swore me in as a lawyer. Unlike yours, I take mine seriously. You problem is not the part of your oath where you are willing to uphold and defend...its the part where you figure out who's the enemy.
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CONSTITUTIONAL rights, which are absolutely, incontrivertably, not to be infringed
Only when you agree with them. You forget the part that says "without due process". The govt. can limit any right you have so long as they provide for due process. That means having a compelling govt interest (turns out security is pretty compelling) and the infringment is narrowly tailored to be the least intrusive possible (in this case listening only to people calling overseas terrorists).
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And if you believe they aren't worth a damned thing, then you do not believe in America.
I believe they are not worth any amount of money and thus agree to ascribe to them a "nominal value" so as to give them the legal standing they need to be asserted in court. Perhaps you believe that your rights have no place in court because their value cannot be defined.
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I would also dispute that you have an education, or if so, you must have seriously bailed on history and civics class, that's for damned sure.
Because I disagree with you. Anyone who disagrees with you is stupid...I stopped making those arguments when I was six. Now I set out to prove them wrong or convince them to change, not dismiss them as stupid. You are not a stupid man...a short-sighted, narrow-minded, anti-semitic, hate monger who can't keep a civil tongue in your mouth...but your not stupid.
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PS- You might consider stopping now, cause it's not like I am arguing with you, I'm just helping you humilate yourself, really...
Thanks. Be sure to adjust your tin foil hat before replying...the NSA is listening. (Can't stop the signal)
H
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Frem, the Administration supporters aren't telling us what to think...
Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:Quote:
The American Civil Liberties Union filed the lawsuit on behalf of journalists, scholars and lawyers who say the program has made it difficult for them to do their jobs. They believe many of their overseas contacts are likely targets of the program, which involves wiretapping conversations between people in the U.S. and people in other countries.
Today a Federal Judge, Anna Diggs Taylor (a Carter appointee...wow), ruled that the Terrorist Surveillance Program's warrantless wiretaps were unconstitutional and ordered the program stopped (pauses while the leftists to cheer and the terrorists dial thier bomb suppliers).
What does this mean? Nothing. First of all the NSA will appeal the ruling and the Court of Appeals will stay execution of the order.
Second, the ruling will be overturned. Why? Beause the question of whether or not the Constitution has been violated is not relevant to the case. As the above quote notes, the ACLU filed this suit on behalf of persons who are not the subject of the program. There is a black letter rule that says a person cannot assert the Constitutional rights of another, in this case the journalists, lawyers, etc. are asserting the rights of their "overseas contacts" aka Osama Bin Laddin and company.
So before PirateNews and the board's liberals start calling FireflyinOsama and the board's terrorists, you might want to be aware of the simple fact that 'you can't stop the signal'.
Also, suppose the NSA simply refuses to comply. You can't arrest the NSA. At most they can sue the NSA, but legally your constitutional rights have a nominal value...$1. The worst thing is that the Court can exclude any recorded calls from trial...but who cares if it stops an attack? So legally I say screw the court's ruling and listen to everybody you need to listen too...for now anyway.
H
Piratenews is a liberal!!!!!
Pull the other one, chum.
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Quote:
Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
Piratenews is a liberal!!!!!
Pull the other one, chum.
Phrased it badly. Meant PirateNews as well as those persons who are liberals. Not that he was a liberal, I was merely placing them in the same sentence, not the same catagory.
H
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Hero- And... how is that you like Firefly again? I just can't understand who you identify with since you're a major authoritarian. :puzzled:
---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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