'Jaynestown' and the nature of faith

POSTED BY: PhoenixRose
UPDATED: Monday, August 7, 2006 05:06
VIEWED: 4692
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NANITE1018

Saturday, July 29, 2006 8:40 PM

I think your right SpaceAnJL. Actually, i think Sihnon (being basically chinese) is buddhist (mostly) and Londinium (being mostly america) is probably a blend of atheism and a little Christianity thrown in here and there. I think the Alliance itself is athiest probably exclusively. And the outer rim is probably christian with some agnostic/athiesm thrown in here and there.

And i agree that 500 probably won't convince people to stop having blind faith/obedience anymore. But we might get better.

Did you know that the Hindu hole books (can't remember which or what it's called, not the Veda's, a later one) say you should do your dharma (duty) without question? Blind obedience and doing your duty. To me that is very frightening. I can't imagine how it is possible to do things with blind obedience or faith, it just doesn't seem possible to me. Every time anyone tells me to do something i ask why. I don't like doing things if there isn't a valid reason behind it. That's why i could never ever ever ever be a soldier.

TRAVELER

Friday, August 4, 2006 12:06 AM

DONCOAT. I'm glad you brought up family. Here is Mal after the war. He is disillusioned and wants to escape everything on this spaceship he names Serenity. What does he get. A family. A large disfunctional family. Way to go Mal. You can run but you can not hide. Being alone sucks and if Mal was serious about being alone he would have gone a different direction. So even if he keeps telling himself he is free, he really loves his family. You make me think that in "Out of Gas" Mal is not only staying behind in hopes of saving Serenity but also the family that shares it.

You know this Joss can not be this smart. This show works on so many levels. Is it just instinct on Joss' part or are we reading to much into it.

But when you mentioned family, well that is how I see them. They care. They squabble. They tease and play. They are comfortable around each other.
Sure Jayne betrays Simon and River. He just didn't consider them family at that point. I love how Mal gets the idea across to Jayne about them being part of the crew by trapping him in the airlock. But Jayne is the child and has a lot of growing up to do.

SPACEANJL

Friday, August 4, 2006 7:53 AM

I got the Buddhist thing from the OVC - Joss actually says that it is the majority religion in the Core.

And I nicked the mantra in Zen..., 'datta, dayadhvam, damyata' - give, sympathize, control - from the Upanishads (via TS Eliot.) I think they might be the writings you mean.

The obedience thing is interesting - Mal and Zoe were both soldiers, but Mal was a volunteer and Zoe comes from a military career background. So she is happier following, and Mal will go off on bizarre tangents. Jayne is a mercenary, rather than a 'proper' soldier, and so is making up the structure as he goes along.

ESTHER

Friday, August 4, 2006 1:01 PM

Quote:
Some people have great difficulty in finding something to believe in, so they attach themselves to a group of people and believe in what that group of people believes in because it gives them a sense of belonging and purpose. They end up believing in the group.

Highly interesting thread!
River, I think that's a good thought you hade there, well formulated.

As for me, I think, "blind obedience" is something, no-one would find good. However, faith is about trust. And when you trust someone, you will start to do things, even if you don't fully understand them. No-one can live without trusting in something/someone. But it's a decision, everyone of us has to make, in whom or what we trust (in most lifes, I'ts mire than one thing.)

In my view, "religion" is putting your trust in people ("the group"). Their "orders" can be very clear, very specific - and very wrong.

"Faith", on the other hand, is putting your trust in God. His orders are somewhat "fuzzy" (specially, when it comes to the subject of kneecaps

), and so you are never relieved of making up your own mind about what would be right to do in a certain situation. (i.e. the Bible says: you shall not kill, but a German theologist named Bonhoeffer took part in a killing attemt against Hitler, because he believed, that otherwise, he would end up "killing" all the innocent people, which could have been saved, by killing Hitler). This is why I love christianity: Jesus gave only two "commands": love God and love your neighbour. That's all, and we are supposed to fill in the blanks of everyday life, based on these two commands.

And these are two commands, I would love to "blindly follow" if I just had the strength.

Esther

My lessons learned from Firefly (no. 11):
A ruthless bounty-hunter can still be a philosopher (That seem right to you?)

YINYANG

Friday, August 4, 2006 1:27 PM

Quote:
You know this Joss can not be this smart. This show works on so many levels. Is it just instinct on Joss' part or are we reading to much into it.

He actually admits in the Objects in Space commentary that most of the deep things he does with the characters he does unintentionally (and then his wife points it out later

).

---

Forgive me, for I am new.

QWERTYUIOPASD

Monday, August 7, 2006 5:06 AM

Quote:
Book had God (not a good one in my opinion)

I just wanted to highlight and comment on this. why do you say its not a very good one? simply because it is the christian faith? I don't have any problems personally with the christian faith or the bible, but I have a problem with the blind faith int he church, and the sheer machine-like ways of the church. hell, at the council of nyceam or something, they voted, picked, choosed, edited, revamped the bible to fit their needs to make it a converting and controlling machine, and, guess what. it worked.

the bible, if you read it yourself, without bias, take it as stories and good advice, make up you own mind about it, is a good thing. but when somoene says they've read it, has read it, tells people whats in it, tells them what they or what their higher-ups think, and these people follow as a flock of sheep.

whats really scary is they really DO call the followers a flock, and these people don't even notice it! they're sheep without realizing it... its sad.

but I'm not going to simply be agaisnt something because it is under the title "christian"

~Qwerty

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