Angel season 5 review (I'm gonna spoil all over, and maybe piss some fans off)

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Monday, June 12, 2006 02:53
VIEWED: 5304
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EST120

Thursday, June 1, 2006 12:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
Actually there's something else I'd like to ask you and others' in regard to the very end. I felt that Angel and co in that alley had all given up. Is that just me? I thought that final charge merely a gesture of defiance, but that there was a collective thought of: "We're going to die."

I agree with Grounded, I feel the finale was more of a statement about how the fight will always be ongoing and that it will never stop. With or without the crew, the fight will still be there.

I can see why it would feel like Angel and the crew are giving up but I think it was more of a realization by Angel that there is no way to be utterly victorious over evil. He says as much earlier, that "the senior partners will always exist in one form or another". Thus, mankind is always going to struggle with evil, but Angel feels that he and his crew can make a difference by making the forces of evil like the senior partners stand up and take notice that good can hurt them, that good can go toe to toe with evil. The realization by the crew that they will probably die is not, in my opinion, a sign of giving up, it is a statement of devotion to their cause. I think if they had given up, they would have tried would not have taken on the Black Thorn, rather, they might have tried to leave Wolfram and Hart.

THESOMNAMBULIST

Thursday, June 1, 2006 1:59 PM

Originally posted by est120:

Quote:
I agree with Grounded, I feel the finale was more of a statement about how the fight will always be ongoing and that it will never stop. With or without the crew, the fight will still be there.

I can see why it would feel like Angel and the crew are giving up but I think it was more of a realization by Angel that there is no way to be utterly victorious over evil. He says as much earlier, that "the senior partners will always exist in one form or another". Thus, mankind is always going to struggle with evil, but Angel feels that he and his crew can make a difference by making the forces of evil like the senior partners stand up and take notice that good can hurt them, that good can go toe to toe with evil. The realization by the crew that they will probably die is not, in my opinion, a sign of giving up, it is a statement of devotion to their cause. I think if they had given up, they would have tried would not have taken on the Black Thorn, rather, they might have tried to leave Wolfram and Hart.

When I first saw it I felt it was a kind of a 'Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid' moment where they go out in front of the Bolivian army guns blazzin' and it is in effect left up to us to decide the outcome. If we wanted them to survive they did, if not they didn't.. Takes your pick so to speak.

But on reflection I needed more (personally) and if, it is rounded up as you say above, then the question begs as to wether or not they shouldn't all have just left the world to Jasmine.

?

Let me just make one more thing clear because it looks like I'm really coming down on Angel, I'm not really. I loved the show! Maybe just for these kinds of dilemnas :D but in an overall seasonal review this one comes last..... But I guess one has to right.

The
Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com

RUGBUG

Thursday, June 1, 2006 3:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
What exactly in Chosen satisfied you? Chosen didn't have any new, profound message to close out the series. Or did I miss it?...

)

For me, Chosen was satisfying because the main conflict for Buffy was tied up. There was closure. For seven years Buffy struggled with being "the one girl in all the world." She was isolated with no real chance for a life or for real happiness. Chosen gave her that. And that is why I love it.

Select to view spoiler:

On a sidenote, I think the whole "first evil", the pit of ubervamps, and Sunnydale sinking into a hole was over the top.

Not Fade Away didn't end any of Angel's struggles. He went out just as he came in, fighting evil with no real hope of ever making a lasting dent in it. That's why I was disappointed. There wasn't a stitch of resolution.

NFA was probably the "real world" answer. We will always struggle. Our failures are our's for life. They don't just go away because we've done enough good. But it was a harsh conclusion for a TV series.

GROUNDED

Thursday, June 1, 2006 3:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RugBug:
For me, Chosen was satisfying because the main conflict for Buffy was tied up. There was closure. For seven years Buffy struggled with being "the one girl in all the world." She was isolated with no real chance for a life or for real happiness. Chosen gave her that. And that is why I love it.

Maybe, but it did so by taking major liberties with series canon, overdosing on deus ex machina, and by having Buffy making a seriously dubious ethical choice to force slayerhood on other girls.

Quote:
Originally posted by RugBug:
Not Fade Away didn't end any of Angel's struggles. He went out just as he came in, fighting evil with no real hope of ever making a lasting dent in it. That's why I was disappointed. There wasn't a stitch of resolution.

NFA was probably the "real world" answer. We will always struggle. Our failures are our's for life. They don't just go away because we've done enough good. But it was a harsh conclusion for a TV series.

But would anyone here have really been satisfied if they'd ended Angel's struggles? The constant struggle is practically the defining attribute of his character. If they'd gone the other way and had him become human in the final episode I think that would have been a total copout.

CHRONICTHEHEDGEHOG

Thursday, June 1, 2006 4:37 PM

I thought Not Fade Away was the single greatest of anything finale of anything ever. I spent about 10 minutes afterwards just sitting there, taking in everything that had just happened.

I'm surprised no-one's mentioned this but I think Angel is summed up best by his statement in season 2 that "if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do" and the season finale was the perfect call back to that. The fight will never end, if we stop fighting someone else will take our place but we're still going to fight for no other reason than because we can.

Personally I thought it was much, much better than the confused ending to season 7 Buffy, but I thought it was a very confused season so it wasn't unexpected.

-------------------------------------------------
Pimping my fanfic:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/sunroomitem.asp?i=8267

CHRISISALL

Thursday, June 1, 2006 5:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by FloralBunny:
So, Chrisetc., do I get Buffy Season 1?

If you're smart (and I know that you are), you'll at least rent it. There's at least 3 must-see eps for hard-core Buffy fans.

Chrisetc. onabun

CHRISISALL

Thursday, June 1, 2006 5:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
And I don't know about you, but I always wanted to slay a dragon... :)

Kwicko, your take on NFA is exactly why many see it as a superior work of art; I personally view the Dark Angel finale the same way, and there are many that don't agree with me there. Like I said somewhere else, it all depends what you bring to the material.

Side note: I loved when Spike read that poem at the club!!!

Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Thursday, June 1, 2006 5:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:

When I first saw it I felt it was a kind of a 'Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid' moment where they go out in front of the Bolivian army guns blazzin' and it is in effect left up to us to decide the outcome. If we wanted them to survive they did, if not they didn't.. Takes your pick so to speak.

Just watched it again last night, and that's exactly what I was left with.

Not a bad way to end it, considering the cancelation, but I too wanted the resolution....

Resolute Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Thursday, June 1, 2006 5:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:

But would anyone here have really been satisfied if they'd ended Angel's struggles?

*raises his hand*

Chrisisall

RUGBUG

Thursday, June 1, 2006 5:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
Quote:
Originally posted by RugBug:
For me, Chosen was satisfying because the main conflict for Buffy was tied up. There was closure. For seven years Buffy struggled with being "the one girl in all the world." She was isolated with no real chance for a life or for real happiness. Chosen gave her that. And that is why I love it.

Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
Maybe, but it did so by taking major liberties with series canon, overdosing on deus ex machina, and by having Buffy making a seriously dubious ethical choice to force slayerhood on other girls.

The series was over, there wasn't much canon to uphold anymore. Canon has been messed with before...Bringing Buffy back messed with canon. Before that, you could bring someone back, but they were zombies or such. It was then switched to you could bring 'em back if the death was mystical in nature so Willow couldn't bring Tara back. Blah, blah, blah. Changing canon isn't necessarily the worst thing that can happen.

I actually had more problem with all the potentials sitting out there...some knowing they were potentials, some not. That messed with canon quite a bit. The potentials have better reflexes, are quicker and stronger (although not to the level of a slayer) than normal folks? Where'd that come from?

I did wonder of the ramifications of turning all those potentials into Slayers. The whole character of Faith and the Angel episode 'Damage' tells you why that's just a bad idea.

But the series was ending, and I needed Buffy to have a future that was different from what I'd seen for seven years.

Quote:
Originally posted by RugBug:
Not Fade Away didn't end any of Angel's struggles. He went out just as he came in, fighting evil with no real hope of ever making a lasting dent in it. That's why I was disappointed. There wasn't a stitch of resolution.

NFA was probably the "real world" answer. We will always struggle. Our failures are our's for life. They don't just go away because we've done enough good. But it was a harsh conclusion for a TV series.

Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
But would anyone here have really been satisfied if they'd ended Angel's struggles? The constant struggle is practically the defining attribute of his character. If they'd gone the other way and had him become human in the final episode I think that would have been a total copout.

Eh, I don't think he needed to become human, but dead? or fighting a hopeless battle? No thanks. Couldn't they just take away the curse so he could experience true happiness? That's all I would've needed.

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