Help me, Star Wars fans; you're my only hope!
POSTED BY: Causal
UPDATED: Tuesday, May 9, 2006 16:16
VIEWED: 8757
PAGE 3 of 5
Quote:
Originally posted by KellyofLuthien:
[B
Edit: I have no problems with the Ewoks defeating some of the best troops Vader had. Often the littlest people, the minorities, are the ones overlooked, but that doesn't mean they are powerless. Kinda like in Lord of the Rings: "Even the smallest person can change the course of the future
Me neither, the Ewoks were cool, and I loved how the highly technological Empire was defeated by a primitive tribes-people that they would have otherwise overlooked as beneath them. It kinda makes me think of the dangers of an over-reliance on technology (or reliance on technology vs creative ingenuity). Same as in the film ALIENS - the Marines go charging in, gloating about all the arsenal of weapons and tech that they have, and yet in their first encounter they suffer alarmingly heavy losses.
Both the aliens and the ewoks knew their surroundings better than their enemies, and in the case of the Empire and the Marines they foolishly assumed their opponents were either unworthy, or were just animals, and they paid the price for that.
hmm, I tend to ramble on don't I? lol
- Shiny. Let's be bad guys.
That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:Quote:That would've been quite a feat, considering that the Imperial March wasn't in ANH (it was composed for ESB). ANH had what I call the "Rebel March" --the awards ceremony music that was a spruced-up version of the Rebel Alliance theme.
Originally posted by KellyofLuthien:
I grew up with Star Wars. My mother even tells a story that she was pregnant with me when she saw Episode IV and I was kicking to the beat of the Imperial March. So in a way I can say I was a SW fan before I was even born!
How sad am I for knowing that?
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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.
owned.
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Quote:
Originally posted by meangoldfish:Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:Quote:That would've been quite a feat, considering that the Imperial March wasn't in ANH (it was composed for ESB). ANH had what I call the "Rebel March" --the awards ceremony music that was a spruced-up version of the Rebel Alliance theme.
Originally posted by KellyofLuthien:
I grew up with Star Wars. My mother even tells a story that she was pregnant with me when she saw Episode IV and I was kicking to the beat of the Imperial March. So in a way I can say I was a SW fan before I was even born!
How sad am I for knowing that?
-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.
owned.
Oh noes. Now I must fall on my sword and cry tears of blood. My life is forfeit.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I love my Captain
Check out my Big Damn FF Icons at http://www.livejournal.com/community/bigdamnfficons/
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Quote:
Originally posted by singate:
The whole concept of teddy bears defeating what the Emperor refers to as 'a legion of my best troops' has never sat right with me. The Empire loses all credibility at this point.
That's the one of the most common themes in all sci-fi. The low tech ones always win. In real life we see this in things like the Vietnam War or people shoving a plane into a building. In Sci-fi we see it in Star Wars (Luke with his bashed and obsolete R2 and without a targeting system beating the best tech of the entire Empire), Jedi, and of course Aliens.
In any Science Fiction show that does not include a holocaust the ones without technology will always triumph over the ones that have it. That’s part of what sets Firefly apart, in any other sci-fi the Browncoats would have won for two reasons:
1 They were outnumbered.
2 Their technology was worse than that of their opponents.
Of course there is some truth to the idea that you can defeat the emperor’s best without any technology to speak of. The entire shield facility the Ewoks took could have been destroyed with a ten-pound bag of flower, a fan, and a single spark.
Actually it always struck me as absurd how much equipment the rebels brought on the job, aren’t they supposed to be constantly on the run and squeezed for resources?
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Quote:
Originally posted by SimonB:
Same as in the film ALIENS - the Marines go charging in, gloating about all the arsenal of weapons and tech that they have, and yet in their first encounter they suffer alarmingly heavy losses.
Exactly:
Before encounter:
Hudson: I'm ready, man, check it out. I am the ultimate badass! State of the badass art! You do NOT want to fuck with me. Check it out! Hey Ripley, don't worry. Me and my squad of ultimate badasses will protect you! Check it out! Independently targeting particle beam phalanx. Whoa! Fry half a city with this puppy. We got tactical smart missiles, phase-plasma pulse rifles, RPGs, we got sonic electronic ball breakers! We got nukes, we got knives, sharp sticks...
Then they meet a group of unarmed enemies with no military training who were, I repeat, UNARMED.
Hudson: You maybe haven't been keeping up on current events but we just got our asses kicked, pal!
A little bit later after a single primitve took out the most advanced bit of military technology they had on hand:
Hudson: Well that's great, that's just fuckin' great man. Now what the fuck are we supposed to do? We're in some real pretty shit now man... That's it man, game over man, game over! What the fuck are we gonna do now? What are we gonna do?
It goes on of course:
Hudson: *Seventeen days?* Hey man, I don't wanna rain on your parade, but we're not gonna last seventeen hours!
Aliens rarely gets criticized because a group of unarmed primitives takes out the marines, why? The Ewoks were a hell of a lot better armed and had higher numbers. So why do people attack one but not the other? The only thing I can think of is that the aliens are cute, and the Ewoks look like the type of animal responsible for some of the worst maulings imaginable.
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Ignoring other movies for a moment though:
There are a lot of areas where I can see someone claiming Star Wars was unrealistic, and there are a lot of faults I can see in the Ewoks.
However what had to be the most realistic moment in the Star Wars trilogy, or pair of trilogies for that matter, is when the Ewoks beat the empire. I mean watch the first Star Wars again, just pop in A New Hope. Are you honestly telling me that you don’t think the Ewok’s could repel the boarding force. The interpersonal weapons in Star Wars are the least effective I have ever seen in fiction or real life. An AK-47 would have turned the tide of any on-foot battle in the show, and a large supply of prepared rocks would serve you far better than the guns of the show.
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Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
Then they meet a group of unarmed enemies with no military training who were, I repeat, UNARMED.
Yep, totally unarmed....except for those sharp whipping tails, lethal claws, acid blood and extending teeth that can smash through your skull....
totally unarmed.
- Shiny. Let's be bad guys.
That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die
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Quote:
Originally posted by SimonB:
Yep, totally unarmed....except for those sharp whipping tails, lethal claws, acid blood and extending teeth that can smash through your skull....
totally unarmed.
Acid blood isn't exactly a huge offensive weapon.
As for the rest you are correct in that their natural assets were more than those of a person BUT the Ewoks were armed with weapons (that they themselves had fashioned) which were more deadly than claws or tails. And the ability to smash skulls (which by the way did not appear in the movie Aliens) pales in comparison to the destructive force the Ewoks brought to bear.
Would the Ewoks beat the Aliens? Hell no. But the odds of Aliens vs. Colonial Marinas are about equal to those of Ewoks versus Imperials. The outcome should have been, and indeed was, the same.
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Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
Acid blood isn't exactly a huge offensive weapon.
Unless it sprays or drips on you
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As for the rest you are correct in that their natural assets were more than those of a person BUT the Ewoks were armed with weapons (that they themselves had fashioned).
very true
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which were more deadly than claws or tails.
Hmm, still think given the aliens speed, stealth and deadliness that they're just as lethal (if not more) than the Ewoks (IMHO only)
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And the ability to smash skulls (which by the way did not appear in the movie Aliens).
But did appear in alien, and was suggested in ALIENS (again IMHO) so clearly a trait of the species.
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pales in comparison to the destructive force the Ewoks brought to bear.
Hmm, yes, agree with you I will.
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Would the Ewoks beat the Aliens? Hell no.
But I imagine that would be a flick that the ewok haters would love to see. EWOKS VS ALIENS.
Yeah, have to say you made some pretty interesting points, and ultimately I'd have to agree with your conclusion - outcome the same. (plus let's not forget those Imps have terrible vision problems in those helmets - even walking through doors is a problem for some...)
- Shiny. Let's be bad guys.
That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die
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Quote:
Originally posted by SimonB:
Hmm, still think given the aliens speed, stealth and deadliness that they're just as lethal (if not more) than the Ewoks (IMHO only)
No argument there, the Ewoks lack the three most important assets of the Aliens:
Stealth
Speed
Coolness
I mean I can imagine the Aliens giving people nightmares, Ewoks ... not so much.
Also a single Ewok couldn’t take out a whole crew in under 24 hours. And finally, if the Ewoks had destroyed the colony in Aliens newt wouldn’t have been hiding, she’d have been kicking ass.
Quote:
But I imagine that would be a flick that the ewok haters would love to see. EWOKS VS ALIENS.
I can see it now, in documentary form, some narrator talking over it, have the Ewok dragged away, cut to a scientist describing the Alien lifecycle, cut back to the Ewok convulsing.
End the movie with the documentary crew getting taken by the Aliens.
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This whole Aliens/Ewoks comparison seems a bit ridiculous to me. There are two things these situations have in common:
1. Neither species has technology.
2. Both are in an environment which is familiar and favorable to them.
Just to add on to what SimonB said about the aliens natural abilities. Don't forget that normal ammo bounces off their bodies. Remember the scene with Lieutenant Dipshit and Vasquez near the end? It appears that nothing short of explosive rounds or some super powered gun like the ones Drake and Vasquez had can actually harm them. Unless you count what Hicks did with his shotgun. The aliens are also strong enough to lift a man then carry him off. An Ewok's best bet is to get about ten of his buddies, surround a few troopers, and pummel him with stones.
This destructive force you speak of, would that be the sticks and rocks they were throwing, or the logs rolling down the side of a hill. Give me a break.
Are there some similarites to what occured in both movies? Yes. The marines and imperials both vastly underestimated what they were up against. The biggest difference is that the aliens are basicly biological killing machines were the Ewoks are as you said primitives who need to shape weapons in order to fight. Oh and let's not forget the clever booby-traps they set, those were top notch.
Finally, I really like they whole Ewoks vs. Aliens idea. I would pay big to see that one. Can you imagine what kind of creature would be created if an Ewok were impregnated by one of those face suckers? Truly horrifying that would be. This gives rise to another fantastic idea. Imagine if in Episode II Anakin's mother had been killed by Ewoks. Again I would pay big to see someone go dark side on a village full of those furry bastards.
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We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.
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