What did they say?

POSTED BY: zzetta13
UPDATED: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 21:24
VIEWED: 7016
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ZZETTA13

Saturday, April 22, 2006 2:41 PM

Ok browncoats,

RR (Travis) I think you're absolutely right. It's really not the spoken word but the emotion behind the word that helps sell a dramatic situation.

SILENCE, so theres some "mother" words wrapped up in the chinese dialog. Well maybe some "mudder" words in there too.

NUCLEARDAY, FF/Serenity entertainment in China? How do you say "Parental Advisory Warning" in chinese?

CRYBABY, I'm all for realism at the cinema and to a certain extent on tv. But its like was posted here, swearing where it ain't needed is a little much don't cha think? If its happening and I don't know it, thats just creative wool over my eyes.

To get back to what NUCLEARDAY said. I really do have a brother married to a sweet american girl of chinese origin. They have a young daughter and his mother-inlaw lives with them. All speak chinese. He even knows quite a bit himself. I'd love to convert him to the FF verse. But don't know if it would be a good idea.

Part of what I like about FF/S is the very creative touch written into the dialog.

lines like" do you think I'm a complete backbirth?"
or "...you inbred dunghead, he pushed me out first!"

Well these are just classic

Z

SAB39

Saturday, April 22, 2006 3:34 PM

I agree there's something to be said for not knowing what the words mean.

My favorite moment of Chinese - Wash's beautiful, long drawn out furious swear at Zoe in War Stories about not having asked what the captain thinks - does lose a little of it's dramatic intensity once you learn (a) exactly what Tai kong suo-yo duh shing-chiou sai-jin wuh duh pee-goo actually means, and (b) that Alan got a bunch of the syllables wrong when he said it...

ZOID

Saturday, April 22, 2006 6:56 PM

Hiya, zzetta13 and Fellow Browncoats:

Okay, so I'll present the opposing viewpoint.

I've always felt it's a peculiarity of so-called 'polite society' to implant cleaned-up versions of swear words into conversation, in order to avoid usage of the actual profanity. Not only do the words differ by a scant vowel or consonant, but everyone knows them for what they really are: a transparently obvious swear word.

Using 'Geez' instead of 'Jesus', 'Gosh darn it' instead of 'God damn it', 'fudge' instead of 'fuck' seems a bit puerile. Is anyone really mollified by using, "This fracking Viper won't make right turns", or, "I'm sick of this frelling universe, Scorpy"? I mean, who exactly do we think we are fooling? And if this strictly cosmetic approach to language works for you, so that having not heard the actual word is the cure-all, and makes the conversation 'polite', well then...

Don't get me wrong. I believe there is most definitely a time and place for both conspicuously polite language and for outright cussing. I just don't mix the two by inserting baby-words so that the profanity is made 'clean'.

I suppose I have a different viewpoint on the power of words -- arbitrary strings of sounds imbued with meaning by common agreement -- as opposed to the intent that lies behind them. I'd much prefer to hear a person with a broken leg say, "Fuck! That hurts!" than "Frack/frell/fudge! That hurts!". It's cathartic for the speaker, and let's me know that I'm dealing with an adult, not a child or an emotionally pinched-off prude.

Of course, if somebody says, "Fuck! That hurts!", I immediately stop rendering assistance and find a bystander with whom to copulate...

Contrarily,

zoid

P.S.
The funny part to me is that Joss Whedon uses 'gorram', et cetera for his characters' language, yet frequently uses 'shit' and fully parses the verb 'fuck' in his conversation with Mark Millar, posted elsewhere on the GenDis forum. What in Hades is up with that? (See how stupid that sounds?)
_________________________________________________

"Son of a bitch!" -The right, proper, Dr. Simon Tam, M.D., Firefly, "The Hero of Canton"

"I aim to misbehave, gorram it." -Capt. Mal Reynolds (sort of), Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

ZZETTA13

Saturday, April 22, 2006 9:42 PM

Hello SAB39,

Hiya Zoid,

Yep the substitution of false swear words or those of another language pretty much work for me in the Joss/verse. Its just my preference.

Zoid, I understand what you're saying and to each his own.But having an actor cut loose with a string of obsenities in an excited moment just has me wincing a bit. I know... I know its just me,but thats how I feel.

the way I view it is about like this. A watered down curse word is like seeing someone you would never want to see naked, in a skimpy bathing suit. You pretty much know whats underneath you'd just be ruttin uncomfortable if it fell out.

ZOID

Sunday, April 23, 2006 2:25 AM

zzetta13 wrote, in part:

Quote:
...A watered down curse word is like seeing someone you would never want to see naked, in a skimpy bathing suit. You pretty much know whats underneath you'd just be ruttin uncomfortable if it fell out.

You been hacking my webcam?!

I see your point, but... Why do people prefer a comforting lie to the unadulterated truth? I'm a 47-year old male, and I will never understand that.

Ah, well. Like I said, I knew I was presenting an opposing, minority view. I didn't expect many to agree with me. I just don't have much use for illusions...

Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave, but not within line of sight of zoid's webcam." -Capt. Mal Reynolds (sorta), Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

ZZETTA13

Sunday, April 23, 2006 3:30 PM

"You been hacking my webcam?!"

lol Zoid,

I just think ppl are more comfortable with a pinch more conservative lingo when it comes to tv. Not that I'm a conservative. Far from it.But when it comes to group entertainment or involvment "being safe" is deemed better that "being sorry" so to speak.

I'm glad that you told the, as you would say "minority" side. Makes for a better discussion.

Thanks for your post, Z

PDCHARLES

Sunday, April 23, 2006 3:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
I see your point, but... Why do people prefer a comforting lie to the unadulterated truth? I'm a 47-year old male, and I will never understand that.

Me either Zoid...

talking to older people growing up... they seemed to think that using curse words showed lack of intelligence. And sure that may be the case with some... like "f', I got to go to the f'n store three f'n times to-f'n-day."

I am not sure, but it seems that the general notion comes from the same source as "Proper Etiquette" which I beleive is originally French. ...and for a time was too contraining and has corroded over time (til now) significantly.

As far as the 'verse... I would expect a group of "oppotunists" on the "Raggedy Edge" to use lots o cussin'...

But intelligence comes in play with the use of the words and when to use them. Jayne may cuss just 'cause thats what came to mind. But, when the cap'n using a strong tone and hushes up the crew with a string of words... well, thats him knowing the difference.. He knows that those words will get everyones attention and fast and in most of their cases they need fast. This is where there is a great side to those words, reserved for the "I ain't playin' around" situations.

________________________________________________
U gonna be smart here Riva?!?

NOSADSEVEN

Sunday, April 23, 2006 9:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by zzetta13:
I really do have a brother married to a sweet american girl of chinese origin. They have a young daughter and his mother-inlaw lives with them. All speak chinese. He even knows quite a bit himself. I'd love to convert him to the FF verse. But don't know if it would be a good idea.

Part of what I like about FF/S is the very creative touch written into the dialog.

lines like" do you think I'm a complete backbirth?"
or "...you inbred dunghead, he pushed me out first!"

Well these are just classic

Z

I don't know how much I'd worry about Chinese speakers... Chinese is a tonal language, and most of it is completely butchered on the show.

I do remember being a little disappointed when I first read the translations, not by the crudeness, but by the goofyness. To me at the time, it took away some of the "class". Again, not because of the crudeness, but because translating it into chinese seemed to allow less poetical expressions - expressions that seemed just silly because they could be, and not really all that in line with the kinds of things some of the characters would say in English. I also think some stuff was meant to have a certain nuance that the Chinese translation just didn't in fact contain. But I've gotten over it.

Anyway, someone asked why they bothered substituting in the first place. I imagine a large part of the answer is simply to bystep network censors.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.

DEEPGIRL187

Sunday, April 23, 2006 10:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
I see your point, but... Why do people prefer a comforting lie to the unadulterated truth? I'm a 47-year old male, and I will never understand that

The unadulterated truth is great, and I generally prefer it, but I think Joss's main concern was to skirt the censors, and do it in a creative way. Thus, the use of Chinese. Besides, when you read some of the translations, some of our own swear words pale in comparison.

At last.
We can retire and give up
this life of crime.

ZOID

Sunday, April 23, 2006 11:41 PM

deepgirl187 replied:

Quote:
The unadulterated truth is great, and I generally prefer it, but I think Joss's main concern was to skirt the censors, and do it in a creative way. Thus, the use of Chinese...

I get that.

What I don't get is the comfortable, warm-and-fuzzy feeling folks get, strictly by changing a vowel/consonant, while the underlying sentiment remains intact.

I say if you're gonna cuss, grow a pair and cuss. And if you're not gonna cuss because it's not proper to do so -- you know, at mama's house, church, school, in a public forum -- then don't cuss. Just don't cuss and then try to hide it by applying some lame, transparent code word like 'frack'.

That's all I'm saying.

Lingually,

zoid

P.S.
I rarely 'cuss' (curse) or 'swear'. That whole prohibition on taking the Lord's name in vain, y'know? I do, however, frequently use profanity: good Old Germanic gutturals. In fact, many times I'll even use the original German (i.e. scheiss hund!); Scots is good too. Scatologically speaking, French is merde for being profane in: it's way too pretty to be an effective emotional release. Which is the only proper use for profanity, imfo.

P.P.S.
On the other hand, I really like the use of 'humped' instead of 'screwed', etc. It's original and not just a weak smokescreen. "We're humped!" It's got a kind of poetry to it, don'tcha think?
_________________________________________________

" I mean, I get how they did it. I just ain't seeing the why." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Firefly, "Shindig"

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