Abandoned by Heaven
POSTED BY: zzetta13
UPDATED: Friday, April 14, 2006 10:27
VIEWED: 8751
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Quote:
Originally posted by IsaacShepherd:
This might be kind of a dumb question but does Mal still wear his cross (the one he kissed in the pilot)? Mal has lost his faith but with all the religious references in the first few minutes I would assume he was quite religous before the conclusion of Serenity Valley.
Considering his bitterness toward Book at first, I would bet he chucked the cross into the furthest reaches of space. "God ain't welcome on my boat" (paraphrase) tells me that he wouldn't still have an icon anywhere. He certainly never seemed to be wearing a necklace of any kind. He believed so completely that the Independents truly deserved to win, that they were right, and even that "angels" would come save them. He was crushed, cut open and scooped out by the end of that bloodbath. My impression is that he started relying only on things he could see; himself, his crew, and his ship. He made his own way, not looking for any help he couldn't get from himself or the people with him. Yeah, he grew to respect Book, but he still didn't want to hear any sermons. Even in the BDM when he found "belief" on Book's advice, it was believing what River had to say. Book told him "River. I don't care what you believe, just believe whatever she..." and he did. He believed again, believed in a cause and in something he could see, and he did it himself. He triumphed.
Joss is an Atheist? I didn't know that.
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Bible's broken. Doesn't make sense.
Zhu fu ni, mei-mei
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In terms of Mal's faith, or lack thereof, I think the main point is that Serenity is about rediscovering a reason. He felt abandoned at the Valley, but seems to eventually warm to the idea of faith as the movie ends.
I believe that just like his gruff exterior was slowly softening, so will his bitterness towards his religion.
As for Joss beign an atheist, remember that non-Christian doesn't necessarily mean atheist. I'm not trying to start a religious war here in the threads or anything of that nature. Beleive whatever you want. However, the traditional concept of an atheist is one who rejects any belief in what is beyond herself or himself. I'm unaware of Joss making any comments on the subject, so we'll have to label him an "I-don't-talk-about-that-stuff-ist" for now.
Again, this is not an opening for people to argue about matters of belief, simply an observation regarding what atheist means. As to whether it's right or wrong, that's a matter of beleif, and should you want to scream and yell at each other over that subject, be my guest, but do it elsewhere please.
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Customizeable handmade baby gifts personalized by my wife! Check them out at www.baby-bobo.com. All proceeds go towards international adoption.
Leaning into the wind that used to carry me-Stavesacre
That's why I don't kiss'em on the mouth- Jayne Cobb
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Quote:
Originally posted by IsaacShepherd:
does Mal still wear his cross ?
well we know he doesn't wear it to bed,
otherwise we'd have seen it in 'Serenity' in the scene where Inara's 'wave' wakes him up....
but you're right: he could have it saved somewhere
(my Father was an angry lapsed Catholic for more than 50 years but never got rid of his rosary)
probably his family were religious people...
but I'm also guessing they aren't still alive.
(just my own personal opinion of course)
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watch the R. Tam Session vids: http://www.hittarivertam.nu/
and buy the 'Serenity' comics published by Dark Horse
have you checked out this thread?:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=15816
and listen to 'I'm Going To See Serenity':
http://music.podshow.com/music/listeners/artistdetails.php?BandHash=a0
c814e1229742ce77ed4497cbf4631c
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MILFORD I agree,
This is not a debate only an observation.
Anyone who would care to scream and shout over the matter can dawn their space equipment and go outside. There ain't no sound in space.
What Joss believes is his own buisness and each and every forum fan their own.No problem with any of it.
Just a thread for folks to express their view on Mals faith issue in a civilized manner. No need for anyone to see it any other way.
BTW, I've got Jayne in the corner with Vera to keep the peace
Z
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Nice, nothink like a Callahan to keep the peace. Hey, do you think that it's the same Callahan company that used to make brake pads in the late twentieth century?
(How's that for a film reference?)
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Customizeable handmade baby gifts personalized by my wife! Check them out at www.baby-bobo.com. All proceeds go towards international adoption.
Leaning into the wind that used to carry me-Stavesacre
That's why I don't kiss'em on the mouth- Jayne Cobb
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Don't know, maybe Callahans Weapons Company. Formed by Dirty Harry back on Earth That Was.
Z
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I know Atheist doesn't mean "non-christian". According to the dictionary Pagan is what means "non-Christian" or rather "Not following one of the three religions of Abraham" which could include Buddhism as being "pagan". Anyway. That's wrong too, but as was stated, this isn't a thread started for debate.
True Atheists are very rare, which is why I asked, as I hadn't heard anything about Joss being an Atheist. Agnostics are far more common.
Just to note, my grandfather was a true, dyed-in-the-wool Atheist from the age of 13 until the day he died. Being in WWII didn't help much, either, from the little he told me about it. So I know Atheism. Maybe Joss is and maybe he isn't, but Mal certainly seems (to me) to portray a very Atheistic attitude. To me. I know that religion you're raised with holds pretty tightly, so maybe he does struggle with it, but he really never seemed to place any kind of belief in things he couldn't see. Except, later, in the basic right for people to be idiots. I'm sure he would say it as "free" but idiots is funnier. 
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Bible's broken. Doesn't make sense.
Zhu fu ni, mei-mei
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Quote:Joss is very much an atheist. In the Buffy commentaries and in various interviews he refers to himself as one (most notably in the commentary for “The Body”). In the commentary for “Objects in Space,” he describes the time and place of his realization that “I have no faith.” This isn’t speculation about his private life, he’s very open about it since it shapes his work.
I'm unaware of Joss making any comments on the subject, so we'll have to label him an "I-don't-talk-about-that-stuff-ist" for now.
(Oh, and btw, in one of the “Angel” commentaries we learn that Tim Minear is an agnostic)
It’s for this reason that I really doubt we were ever going to see Mal turn back to religion. He may become less hostile to religion in general, but he’s past that. He’s moving on to a different territory and I imagine that’s something Joss wanted to (and hopefully still wants) to explore. Given Whedon’s public remarks about the subject of faith, I really doubt we’d ever get a story about Mal regaining his faith in God--that doesn’t seem like something Joss is even interested in exploring.
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Quote:
Originally posted by StakeTheLurk:
He may become less hostile to religion in general, but he’s past that. He’s moving on to a different territory and I imagine that’s something Joss wanted to (and hopefully still wants) to explore.
That would be shiny. I mean, we do kind of get to see what Mal now believes in, but I'd like to see it play out more, you know. Hell, I just want to see everything play out more.
Stupid Fox
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Bible's broken. Doesn't make sense.
Zhu fu ni, mei-mei
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