Where are the Libertarians?
POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Tuesday, December 2, 2025 07:10
VIEWED: 17715
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And the small-government Republicans and conservatives? The "government-is-your-friend" posters. Bush just admitted warrantless wiretapping on national television. Nixon tried that and the Supreme Court already said it was unconstitutional. Been waiting for a couple of days for one of you guys to pick up the topic. So....?? 
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Please don't think they give a shit.
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Just wondering.
Why is it a heinous crime when Bush taps thousands of international calls and emails after 9/11 happened in order to try to prevent another one but it's completely ignored that Clinton tapped millions of international AND DOMESTIC calls and emails after the first trade center bombing?
Just curious is all.
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dc4bs
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Quote:
Originally posted by dc4bs:
Why is it a heinous crime when Bush taps thousands of international calls and emails after 9/11 happened in order to try to prevent another one but it's completely ignored that Clinton tapped millions of international AND DOMESTIC calls and emails after the first trade center bombing?
Because we liked Clinton. Well, you know, more than Bush.
I think this is one of those things that, deep down, a couple of people already suspected. It certainly didn't come as a surprise to me; in fact I found it more surprising that so many people thought this president played by the rules when it comes to their constitutional rights. This'll blow over once the White House gives the media something new to talk about.
Banging your head against a wall uses 150 calories an hour.
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A lot of us Libertarians just don't give a shit anymore. People keep voting for democrats and republicans without question. They get what they deserve. I've become comfortable living free despite the government. It's not as hard as you might think. Certainly not as hard as convincing the sheep to quit voting for republicrats.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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Yeah, who cares what they do, both parties are equally guilty. The libertarians are staying home and making more ammo.
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Small govt. republican right here. Check. In an out-of-power way. A way out of power way.
I think Sununu is there, and Larry Craig. McCain Hagel, Graham, Chafee, Snowe, Collins, Voinovich and Lott. There are maybe some others about. But yeah, in a minority way.
Anyway, Bush's legalize watergate campaign, I thought I posted something about this. I mean, what can you say? Bush. I mean it says it all.
Bush. Clinton. Bush. Clinton. Bush.
GH Bush. B. Clinton. GW Bush. H. Clinton. J. Bush.
After that I guess Chelsey will be old enough to run.
it's a duo-dynasty.
DC4BS,
because Clinton told people who he was tapping, Bush didn't. This means that Bush was probably tapping Kerry, and Soros. Clinton might have tapped Dole, I don't know, probably did.
KHYRON,
I didn't. Like Clinton more. I can't stand either one. Clinton was the fiscal nightmare Bush is but then Bush hasn't killed as many people. Not for want of trying. I'll grant after 8 years he may have killed more. Clinton bombed more places. Clinton bombed Texas. That was pretty uncalled for. Then, anyways.
Quote:
People keep voting for democrats and republicans without question.
I definitely used to feel this way. But the major parties are the only way to get anything accomplished. The mistake the sheep are making is not signing up to Mommy Dem or Papa Gop, it's that once they do, they vote for the loser that gets nominated.
People have to stop fearing the enemy just because he's evil. After Clinton and Bush we should all know that you're own party's guy is evil too.
So, the primary is the battle. Win that, and then vote for them in the general. Lose that, look at the winner, if they're evil, don't vote for them.
The problem with libertarian ammo theory is next time you get a Cliton he'll come by and bomb you. Bush will only bomb you if you're outside the country. Or at least in a blue state. Hmm. NY, 9/11. Hmm.
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Where are the Libertarians? Where they have always been bitching from the sidelines and doing exactly nothing. I sat and watched their convention a few years ago and was amazed just how like the old SDP they were -- people too ineffectual to be in charge of something who are complaining that they are not in charge!
As for Republicans --- Big Government is like the one Ring. While you don't have it's power you believe that it is evil and pledge to destroy it, but when you have it in your possession you start thinking "yeah I can use this for GOOD!" and before you know it you are half naked, living in a cave and eating raw fish (or is that just Tom DeLay???)
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Quote:Not a big supporter of Clinton here- I know he did some skanky stuff- but this is one thing I never heard of. First of all, it would be impossible to tap "millions" of calls because you would need "millions" of listeners, and at least thousands of translators. Secondly, I tried looking this up, and while I found a lot of hue and cry about what Clinton PROPOSED to do
Why is it a heinous crime when Bush taps thousands of international calls and emails after 9/11 happened in order to try to prevent another one but it's completely ignored that Clinton tapped millions of international AND DOMESTIC calls and emails after the first trade center bombing?
Quote:http://hnn.us/articles/366.html
For two decades, lingering popular wariness forestalled any expansion of wiretapping powers. But after the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, President Clinton, warning of international terrorism, proposed measures similar to those George Bush seeks today. Civil libertarians in Congress refused to pass them, but Clinton redoubled his efforts after the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, and again after the 1996 Atlanta Olympics bombing. Yet Congress held firm, giving Clinton none of the new wiretapping powers he sought. What the bombings of 1993, 1995, and 1996 failed to achieve, the atrocities of 2001 may bring to fruition.
www.cqpress.com/context/articles/cqr19950721.html and some of what he HAD done
Quote:www.monitor.net/monitor/10-30-95/fisa.html I haven't found any- and mean zip, nada, nic- about this alleged massive wiretapping program. So, do you have a link to info about this?
Granting new powers to the FISA court was accomplished quietly and treated as a non-event in the national media. The lack of reporting was somehow fitting, though, following as it did the silent debate last year when Congress rubberstamped the annual Intelligence Authorization Act
BTW, if you check out these links, you'll find the same people (ACLU, Molly Ivens, etc) complaining about loss of freedom under Clinton as under Bush. So, I don't know where the Libertarians have been but at least the Liberals are consistent.
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Please don't think they give a shit.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:
Where are the Libertarians? Where they have always been bitching from the sidelines and doing exactly nothing. I sat and watched their convention a few years ago and was amazed just how like the old SDP they were -- people too ineffectual to be in charge of something who are complaining that they are not in charge!
As for Republicans --- Big Government is like the one Ring. While you don't have it's power you believe that it is evil and pledge to destroy it, but when you have it in your possession you start thinking "yeah I can use this for GOOD!" and before you know it you are half naked, living in a cave and eating raw fish (or is that just Tom DeLay???)
... that was a very intelligent post, and I have to agree.
... I became a Libertarian only after leaving the United States and watching the absurdity from 10 thousand miles away.. for several years.
... Dem or Rep is a lose-lose situation these days. Both have us completely chained and bound to forces beyond anyone's control. Excuse me if I seem to be drifing here a bit, and I am no "tree-hugging" environmentalist to be sure, but...
... Saudi Arabia IS the enemy of the United States. That is to say, everybody in Saudi Arabia who isn't a billionaire hates us pretty much. And G. Bush, and Slick Willy before him spent years kissing the Saudis' arses for love of money and personal fortune (Clinton, about a month after his last term went to give a speech in Rihad... for a million and some odd dollar speaking fee. Daddy Bush did likewise).
... Colin Powel has made millions selling Boeing airplanes to the Saudi Royals, to offer another example . . . Condi Rice and that oil frieghter they named for her... I could go on and on....
... All the while Saudi Arabia is like Vesuvius of old - ready to erupt in an Islamic fundamentalist militant explosion... So our fearless leaders have to get all the cash they can, WHILE they can, eh...
... Now for that "tree-hugger" part. Hydrogen battery-powered cars, that run on nothing but water DO exist, and they run quite well. They are not yet perfected and nobody (gov't or major corporations) is putting any serious money into its development. . . why not? Well... there's no big PERSONAL cash payoff.
... Cut US dependency on Saudi oil, and a great many problems vanish. Including the "need" to go fight wars overseas to better secure oil for that day when Saudi Arabia does finally fall apart.
... Did that make any sense? I hope it did. The issue is so complex and I don't pretend to understand all of it, but this Saudi connection is cancer that crosses all party lines in the US.
... Venting finished. Thank you.
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Quote:Well said. But there are exceptions to the rule. Some Big Problems require a Big Government. For example, fishing stocks depletion can only be resolved through world-wide regulation, which is the Biggest Government of all. Unless you can think of another way to resolve such problems. BTW- thanks for the visual on Tom DeLay. heh heh heh
Big Government is like the one Ring. While you don't have it's power you believe that it is evil and pledge to destroy it, but when you have it in your possession you start thinking "yeah I can use this for GOOD!" and before you know it you are half naked, living in a cave and eating raw fish (or is that just Tom DeLay???)
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Please don't think they give a shit.
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