More/Latest Torture News--From the CIA's secret prisons
POSTED BY: R1Z
UPDATED: Tuesday, December 2, 2025 07:01
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I'm w/holding judgement on this news item. It could be true: previous reports of CIA "extraordinary renditions" (as investigated by Italian secret service) tend to support the concept of secret prisons. It could be false: This piece of "news" almost certainly came from the WH, which has a tendency to smear it's political enemies w/ lies (eg Joseph Wilson). In addition, there may be divisions even w/in the CIA.
EDITED TO ADD: Further details from the Independent
Quote:http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article324307.ece
Using the flight logs of a plane used by the CIA for transporting prisoners and other unspecified information, a leading human rights group said it believed the facilities were located in the two former Soviet bloc countries and first used in 2003.
Tom Malinowski of Human Rights Watch told The Independent: "These are the areas we are highly confident about, based on the flights logs and other information we have."
The investigation by the New York-based group has focused on the logs of a Boeing 757 jet with the tailgate marker N313P. This plane has been widely identified as being used by the CIA for the transportation and "renditioning" of terror suspects outside the US. Until recently, it was registered to a Massachusetts-based company believed to be a front for the CIA.
Using this data Human Rights Watch discovered that, in September 2003, it flew directly from Kabul to Szymany airport, near the remote Polish town of Szczytno, north of Warsaw, home to a training facility for the Polish intelligence service.
From there, the plane flew directly to Mihail Kogalniceanu air base, close to the Romanian city of Constanta on the Black Sea coast. The Pentagon is involved in negotiations to take over the airbase's operation. Throughout 2004, the plane made a number of other visits to Kogalniceanu, on which the US has spent at least $3m upgrading facilities in preparation for taking it over.
In 2003 Kogalniceanu was used as the temporary location for more than 3,500 US troops on their way to northern Iraq. Last October, US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld visited the base and met senior Romanian military officials.
"The flight from Kabul in September 2003 happened at a time when we know a number of ghost detainees were being moved," said Mr Malinowski. "It's hard to imagine why this plane would be flying there otherwise..Larry Johnson, a former CIA analyst, said he believed news about the detention facilities was emerging because agency members were concerned. "Once again the Bush administration is out of control," he said.
.."
Apparently the info came from neither the CIA nor the WH but a NGO.
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Please don't think they give a shit.
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Originally posted by SignyM:
This piece of "news" almost certainly came from the WH, which has a tendency to smear it's political enemies w/ lies (eg Joseph Wilson). Something like this needs corroboration.
Good for you Signy.
BTW, why do you beat your wife? Is it the White House? Did the White House make you beat your wife? I know Joe Wilson looked at your wife's bruises and concluded that you didn't beat her, I'd expect him to say that, him beating his wife because of her CIA affiliation (I'm not talking out of school here am I) and all? But why?
(Note: I don't have actual proof that you beat your wife. I think this needs corraboration, certainly, but I'm told by sources close to Signy, and the allegation is so serious, I think you owe us all an explanation. Perhaps the EU can help, the French know all about this sort of thing.)
Edited to add
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The investigation by the San Antonio-based group, Wife Beaters Watch, has focused on a 1984 red Mercury Topaz with Michigan plates LUV PUPPY. This car has been widely identified as being used by the Wife Beaters, Inc for the transportation and "renditioning" of wives outside the home. Until recently, it was registered to a Massachusetts-based company believed to be a front for the DNC.
My god, the DNC supports wife beating. Someone tell me why Howard Dean wants the DNC to support wife beating. WHY?
H
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Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:Auraptor: What makes you think the CIA (of all organizations) leaked this? It destroys their credibility AND (if true) their operations- please give them the benefit of not shooting themselves in the foot so blatantly. Don't you realize there's been bad blood between the White House and the CIA ever since whenever? If anybody leaked this, it would be the White House trying to destroy the CIA's credibility before the Libby trial. Sheesh! We really DO need a rolleyes emoticon!
Gee, if the CIA can leak this sort of stuff, why is it so hard to imagine to think they'd do the same about Val Plame? Hmmmm...
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Please don't think they give a shit.
Where's the breathless news reporting on this story that we saw with Plame Gate? You really need to face facts here. It was the CIA, not the White House, that leaked this as well as the Valerie Plame story.
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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I basically agree with you, let the CIA fight al qaeda however it needs to, as long as it doesn't torture people, but I can't let you get away with this one:
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than what the Dems are trying to trump up about what Scooter Libby did.
What scooter libby did was commit treason. Which considering he's basically a commie anyway, should not surprise anyone. I don't think the democrats are any part of this, except the noisy part.
Here's what democrats are doing:
They're standing on the sidelines and cheering every time a Bush Administration self destructs.
That's exactly what they're doing. Standing on the sidelines. They aren't an active part of Bush crumbling. They never blocked a single vote either, they can't. Democrats are beyond powerless at this point. They're like Ralph Nader. So if Bush says "Democrats did this" don't believe him. He's lying again. Democrats can't do jack.
That's what I think. A combination of disaffected republicans and independent normal checks and balances of govt. are responsible for everything that happens to Bush. It's the suicide presidency.
But Scooter was a footsoldier for Cheney in an attempt to unintentionally help Al Qaeda because they were more afraid of not being able to go to war then they were of not capturing bin laden.
Here's a better idea. Let them die. Get them out of there asap, and get a decent republican replacement administration in there before 2008 so it can run for re-election. Anyone will do. I don't care at this point.
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Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:Yep. And WE deserve to give it to 'em.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
This is news.....why? It only makes perfect sense that the most evil and important of al Qaeda's organization be kept in secret. They deserve everthing they get.
It's not like they're human or anything.
Bastards shoulda stayed unborn, if ya ask me.....
Chrisisall
We more than anyone deserve to give it to 'em, Chris. -
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Yeah, it's important that we only torture people in designated areas.
Torture is DoD policy not CIA. The reaosn Abu Ghraib was such a scandal is that it led back up to an actual policy.
This article said Porter Goss sought exemption. Earlier I read that Cheney sought exemption and Goss was outraged and said he didn't want exemption.
Anyone have any clarification?
I agree with Auraptor, let the CIA do it's job.
If there are abuses at CIA facilities, that's another matter. If someone has reason to suspect that this is the case, write your senators, get a formal investigation. There are plenty of people with clearance to go in, inspect, ask detainees about their treatment, and then if there are claims of abuse, investigate those claims and see if there's a legitimate basis for those claims. If, and only if, that turns out to be the case should the CIA be censured.
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It's what they deserve for living on top of OUR oil.
Lol. See. He got you. Bush. He reeled you in to his lie, all unsuspecting like. Bin Laden, Al Qaeda - not sitting on any oil. That would be Saddam, and oh yeah, our good friend the Sultan of Swish.
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Them Them Them. Does anyone know who this them is? I think I see someone posted a plane which is about to hit a building, and I believe that plane has been hijacked by a them.
Who is that them on that plane?
Oh, yeah, it's a bunch of Saudis.
So you want to go kick some Saudi butt? Sign me up! :)
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Signym,
I agree, but I think there's more here that's up in the air. Secret interrogation centers, probably, detainee abuse in those facilities, possibly. But all of this is a lot of if.
The source is the whitehouse? This is a curious one. I don't see the motive, but I agree with you, if they had a motive they'd probably do it. Maybe they thought Langley was looking at them funny.
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Quote:
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It's what they deserve for living on top of OUR oil.
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Lol. See. He got you. Bush. He reeled you in to his lie, all unsuspecting like. Bin Laden, Al Qaeda - not sitting on any oil. That would be Saddam, and oh yeah, our good friend the Sultan of Swish.
Sorry, and you're right. It's what they get for using good poppy growing land for a training center, when it could be keeping our under-classes stoned and docile and not looking into things. How's that?
To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein
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Where's the breathless news reporting on this story that we saw with Plame Gate?
Actually, the piece at the head of this thread is only the first of several I've seen. No point in posting repetitive stuff.
Here's one from today:
http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2005/11/03/cia-prison051103.htm
l
Quote:
EU to investigate allegations of secret CIA prisons
Last Updated Thu, 03 Nov 2005 09:34:40 EST
CBC News
The European Commission plans to investigate reports that the CIA is running a secret prison system in Eastern Europe and using it to interrogate key al-Qaeda captives.
EU officials say they will informally question the European Union's 25 member nations.
"We have to find out what is exactly happening. We have all heard about this, then we have to see if it is confirmed," EU spokesman Friso Roscam Abbing said Thursday.
"As far as the treatment of prisoners is concerned ... it is clear that all 25 member states having signed up to European Convention on Human Rights, and to the International Convention Against Torture, are due to respect and fully implement the obligations deriving from those treaties."
Abbing warned such prisons could violate EU human rights laws. But he also admitted the EU head office could not take action against member states if they are found to have violated human rights.
Meanwhile, U.S. officials have refused to confirm or deny the Washington Post report regarding the CIA-run prisons.
The paper reported that the Soviet-era style compounds are part of a covert prison system that has been run for nearly four years by the U.S. spy agency, as part of Washington's war on terrorism.
It said there are sites in at least eight countries, including Thailand and Afghanistan, as well as several democracies in Eastern Europe.
But the Post said it is not publishing the names of the Eastern European countries involved in the covert program, at the request of senior U.S. officials.
They argued that the disclosure might disrupt counterterrorism efforts in those countries and elsewhere and could make them targets of possible terrorist retaliation.
The existence and locations of the facilities are known to only a handful of top officials in the U.S., according to the report.
No information is known about the facilities, including who is kept there, how decisions are made about the detainees and how long they are detained.
The secret detention system is said to have been conceived in the first months after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.
The Post said CIA officials have been increasingly debating the system, questioning the legality, morality and practicality of holding suspects in isolation and secrecy.
To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein
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