SERENITY great cinema? Compared to what?
POSTED BY: Howard
UPDATED: Friday, November 4, 2005 01:41
VIEWED: 28718
PAGE 8 of 13
Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
Terminator and Terminator 2 were very good movies, especially Terminator II. I can't understand why anyone would think it wasnt very good.
enuff said
Effects wise, T2 was a milestone, as far as plot, I have serious issues with it. If they really did destroy the items that led to the delevopment of Skynet then the very next scene after the T101 sinks into the molten metal should have been Sarah Connor waiting on tables at the same moment the original Terminator movie started. The timeline should have corrected itself and the events of both movies should have just been nullified. I generally have issues with time travel movies like Back to the Future. When the Delorean hit 88 MPH it traveled in time not space so it appeared in the field where the mall was eventually to be built.. wrong. It would have popped into deep space and it would have taken 30 years for the Earth to get to where the Delorean and its frozen occupant would be waiting. To arrive in the same spot as you left but in a different time you would need to plot the movement of the Earth and the movement of the Solar System, Galaxy and Universe to have a correct exit point. But then someone told me I think too much.
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"Serenity NOW!!! ... Insanity later."
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TO ALL:
Even if you think T2 is a milestone ( a
milstone of what? Making a bad actor into
a megastar? ) I would just like to thank
everyone for building up 70 replies to this
thread. It may have started off with nasty
replies but it has developed into a healthy
discussion thread.
Most appreciated.
H.
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TO ALL:
Even if you think T2 is a milestone ( a
milstone of what? Making a bad actor into
a megastar? ) I would just like to thank
everyone for building up 70 replies to this
thread. It may have started off with nasty
replies but it has developed into a healthy
discussion thread.
Most appreciated.
H.
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No one is saying that T1/T2 were not well
made.
You seem to have a problem making a distinction
between the quality of production and the
values, mentality etc the content projects.
For me THE TERMINATOR culture is a very
reactionary reinforcement of the worst kind
of values promoted by corporate media and
corporate society.
It is part of a video-game culture which by
definition is NO culture at all.
The films of James Cameron are precisely the
kind of stalwarts that are used to block any
kind of enlightened cinema from the mainstream
and the paradox is that the more money a movie
of that type has got behind it the more the
corporate mass media gives it massive free
publicity. To studios who can well afford their
own PR. While indie and medium budget films
with more thoughtful and challenging content
and very small PR budgets receive no such
generosity from the corporate mass media.
Both the promoted and the promoters share the
same narrow and intolerant corporate capitalist
agenda within a media complex that makes sure
the populace knows next to nothing about the
truth concerning United States foreign and
corporate policy. TERMINATOR movies are a
mechanism used as WMD...WEAPONS OF MASS
DISTRACTION to keep people's minds filled with
childlike fantasies. To ensure those same minds
know next to nothing about the massive
suffering endured by humanity as a result of
one's own government and private sector crimes
abroad. As well as the well hidden suffering
at home. Such as was revealed when Hurricane
Katrina blew the lid off a brutal society
with under-caste Third World poverty at the
core of the leading First World nation. No
more denials or self-delusions were possible
when the true nature of American society was
on display before the eyes of the whole world
thanks to Katrina who in paradox aided the
cause of justice and truth. By blowing away
the lies enforced by a corporate media that
prefers to dish out free publicity to action
movies rather than do its job and report as
real journalists. In one court-case FOX NEWS
won a case when they were accused quite
accurately of censoring news at the behest of
their sponsors (relating to poisons found in
milk Americans feed their children every day)
they won the case only because in the State
of Florida it turns out there is NO law against
a television news organisation telling lies in
its news coverage. FOX won because it is legal
for them to lie according to Florida Law. In
a Kafkaesque twist the whistle-blowing
journalists were then prosecuted under Florida
Law for breach of contract. They refused to lie
in the story they were writing when FOX bosses
told them to...this was a breach of contract.
It is a case of a reactionary reverse Robin
Hood ism...stealing from the poor to promote
the rich back to the poor.
Instead of watching crap like TERMINATOR
buy a copy of THE CORPORATION the above account
and many other issues are covered in the body
of the documentary and then in even more
depth in supplementary 2nd disc. A masterpiece
DVD.
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Now your statring to sound like a conspiracy nut.
Now, I won't argue that most big hollywoord movies are crap. And I agree that a lot of them serve to degrade our culture. And they often serve as a distraction from the real world.
But sometimes that's not a bad thing. It's called escapism. Most movies are meant to entertain. Some succeed, others don't.
And while the corporations undoubtedly profit from these movies, and are happy to capitalize on the distractions they provide, I think you're take on it is a little too conspiracy-oriented.
First of all, people like to see those movies. People vote with their wallets, and if they wanted every movie to be a deep, thought provoking sociological study, those films would be more successfull. Sure, they don't get the massive promotions that action movies do, but if they did, do you honestly think that THE CORPORATION would have been a blockbuster if it had been advertised more? The film business is a business. Period. What makes money, gets made.
If Hollywood were to stop making movies like THE TERMINATOR et al tomorrow, do you really think we'd see a huge boom in attendance for "enlightened cinema"? Maybe. But I think we'd see the film industry go out of business real quick.
Secondly, do you think James Cameron makes the movies he does because it serves a corporate agenda? Or because those are the stories he likes to tell? Particularly in the case of the first TERMINATOR, he fought to get the money to make that movie, because it was the movie he wanted to make. And there are always going to be talented, creative people who want to tell fun stories, that hopefully people will enjoy, and not be out to change the world.
I understand your picking out Cameron, because his films have been highly successfull, and have a big profile. But the fact is, in terms of big-budget action/adventure flicks, Cameron's movies tend to carry more social commentary than most of his peer's work. This includes both TERMINATOR movies, as well as THE ABYSS and his series DARK ANGEL (of which I am not a fan, for the sake of clarity).
Would things be better if more people were trying to change the world? Sure. Does that mean that those who just wish to entertain and be entertained should be derided. I say no.
I write sci-fi, and I make films. None of them was designed to cast a light on corporate corruption, or the evils of the world, at least not yet (I have some ideas....). None of them have been as good as Jim Cameron's, or Joss' work. I make them because I love to do it. I do it because those types of stories entertain me, and my greatest hope is that they'll bring a bit of fleeting happiness to someone else. And I sure as hell don't do it to advance any corporate agenda.
And I'm gonna keep doin' it.
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As a really serious movie lover who liked "Die Hard" and both of the first two "Terminator" films but who is also an avowed ultra-non-supporter of G.W.B. (which has no relevence, realy, but I thought I'd throw that in), I do think that's often a false distinction between "entertainment" and "art."
I've always held that any sufficiently accomplished work of art is entertaining in that it involves you, either intellectually, emotionally or both. And, on occasion, works that are designed to be "just entertaining" achieve a kind of grace that turns them into something that is very much like a work of art. Movies like "Singin' in the Rain" or "Stagecoach" are both potboilers who's makers would have laughed had you mentioned the word "art" to them, but they are also acknowlged master.
It seems to me that Joss is a kind of throwback to filmmakers of that era -- but one who's actually read some film theory (he named a character on "Buffy" after the renowned cineaste Robin Wood, for chrissakes!), so it's a bit complicated.
"Serenity" is designed mainly to entertain, but to also have a certain number of levels to it for those of us who care to look. I think it's a very good movie, probably better than "Terminator 2" at least, and possibly "Die Hard" (which is a very clever little movie when you examine it closely, btw).
Is it a "great" movie in the same way the "Citizen Kane" or "Weekend" or "The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp" or "Rear Window" or "The Gold Rush" is "great"? (btw, I found "The Trial" a crashing bore, and I LOVE Kafka!). Maybe not. Maybe so. Maybe in 20 years people will think so, more likely not quite.
In any case, I think trying to impress people with a long list of movies that you feel superior for liking is the cheapest trick out there.
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As a really serious movie lover who liked "Die Hard" and both of the first two "Terminator" films but who is also an avowed ultra-non-supporter of G.W.B. (which has no relevence, realy, but I thought I'd throw that in), I do think that's often a false distinction between "entertainment" and "art."
I've always held that any sufficiently accomplished work of art is entertaining in that it involves you, either intellectually, emotionally or both. And, on occasion, works that are designed to be "just entertaining" achieve a kind of grace that turns them into something that is very much like a work of art. Movies like "Singin' in the Rain" or "Stagecoach" are both potboilers who's makers would have laughed had you mentioned the word "art" to them, but they are also acknowlged masterpieces.
It seems to me that Joss is a kind of throwback to filmmakers of that era -- but one who's actually read some film theory (he named a character on "Buffy" after the renowned cineaste Robin Wood, for chrissakes!), so it's a bit complicated.
"Serenity" is designed mainly to entertain, but to also have a certain number of levels to it for those of us who care to look. I think it's a very good movie, probably better than "Terminator 2" at least, and possibly "Die Hard" (which is a very clever little movie when you examine it closely, btw).
Is it a "great" movie in the same way the "Citizen Kane" or "Weekend" or "The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp" or "Rear Window" or "The Gold Rush" is "great"? (btw, I found "The Trial" a crashing bore, and I LOVE Kafka!). Maybe not. Maybe so. Maybe in 20 years people will think so, more likely not quite.
Which brings me to another distinction, "favorite" versus "greatest" -- it's a subjective thing, but I think we all know the difference. "Serenity" is possibly not the "greatest" film made this year...but (short of something really mindblowing to me coming out this year) it's quite probably my favorite of this year because I have a deep emotional attachment to the characters and story that goes beyond the movie itself. Can't be helped.
In any case, I think trying to impress people with a long list of movies that you feel superior for liking is the cheapest trick out there.
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I think I've actually gone blind from reading Howard's latest rant. *waves hand in front of eyes* Well, maybe not. But, jeez man, GET A LIFE! Being an angry snob does not make you better than others, nor will it convince anybody else that you are. Also, I like Terminator and I'm not American, so I don't think your paranoid corporate America argument even applies. So, take a deep breath, get off your pedestal and try not to suck, okay?
I give to you the Seeker of Serenity, the Valkyrie Warrior, the Gourmet Cook and the Truth Scoper.
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After reading Howard's list the only movie I want to see now besides Serenity for the 5th time is "Howard's End"
Jaytee
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