Discussion for the subject: What happened to my show, 'cause Serenity wasn't it?!

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 03:51
VIEWED: 33215
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CHRISISALL

Tuesday, October 4, 2005 11:35 PM

Allow an analogy for a moment:
Star Trek IV. Kirk was a bumbling idiot, Checkov just plain stupid, McCoy giving out 'kidney growth' pills, and Spock was the baby-sitter of the bunch. What happened to my show? Did 'Assignment: Earth' never take place? Save-the-whales, in SPACE??
Now I enjoyed it for the 'Spock's Brain' that it was, but bottom line is that it was pretty dumb, and had little regard for the competant, skilled characters we'd come to know; everything was in service of the comedy.

Now, I've heard similar grumblings about Serenity.
I see it as a logical extention and conclusion to the events begun in Firefly, but to some, it seems to have left our characters behind in service of the big-time action and brutality necessary for a theatrical release, and offers only faint glimmers of 'Firefly-that-was'.

Was this our show, or wasn't it?
I think it'd be interesting to hear all angles on this...

Chrisisall

ROCKETJOCK

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 3:35 AM

Was. But writ large, and for much higher stakes. This time our Big Damn Heroes were fighting for something bigger than mere survival. Something so big even Jayne accepted the risk, with no thought of profit.

Select to view spoiler:

I mourn our lost. The wound is still raw. I've watched the film three times now, and tears still flow.

I can understand why some feel they have to turn away, disown the movie.

But I'm not among them.

"She's tore up plenty. But she'll fly true." -- Zoë Washburn

RAKARR

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 3:43 AM

In my opinion Serenity stayed true to the fans. There wasn't a moment where I thought it didn't feel like a true Firefly movie. Hell it was better than any singel Firefly episode! Just awsome!

Startrek movies never were that great in my opinion.

"I am a leaf in the wind."
Big Damn Fansite - Where the Browncoats gather.
http://www.freewebs.com/bigdamnfansite

EMBERS

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 3:58 AM

well it makes sense that there would be differences
#1 Firefly wasn't entirely Joss' vision, it was a Big Damn compromise with Fox... Joss said many times that he wanted Mal to be angrier and more bitter.

#2 Firefly was a TV show and they thought they would have 22 episodes to slowly enjoy the characters, their relationships and developing and revealing elements about things

Select to view spoiler:

things like where Reavers really came from

with Serenity we are dealing with a movie, where we don't have the luxury of wasting any time...
characters have to be sketched out quickly so that we can get to the story.
But at least the characters and the story can be what Joss intended,
without anyone trying to tell him what he should or should not do.

I think the comic book was supposed to bridge the gap,
explain changes that had happened on board...
at least it did for me.
But personally I don't have any problems with the movie as compared to the TV show....
I would like to have 22 episodes per year,
instead of one two hour movie every 3 years....
but there is nothing we can do about that.

Heck, I'll just be happy to have more comic books.

MACBAKER

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 3:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Rakarr:
In my opinion Serenity stayed true to the fans. There wasn't a moment where I thought it didn't feel like a true Firefly movie. Hell it was better than any single Firefly episode! Just awesome!

Agreed! Sometimes it wasn't fun, and certain scenes broke my heart, but no doubt about it, IT WAS FIREFLY! Yes, it had more anguish than any episode of the show, but it also had far more at stake and far more excitement than the series ever did!

Select to view spoiler:

I'll continue to morn the dead, but I still have to smile cuz in the end, Mal's ship Serenity is "Still Flying!"

I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.

CANTTAKESKY

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 4:29 AM

I have seen the movie 3 times. And each time I walk away amazed at new layers I hadn't seen before.

It is easy to see shortcomings of too many crowd-pleasing compromises, or not enough. But each time I see the movie again, I see something grander than theatrics. Serenity has a story to tell, and at heart, it doesn't much matter if the crowd is pleased or not. And the story is this: each character, even the Alliance, is more complicated and flawed than what we saw in Firefly.

No, it wasn't Out of Gas or Objects in Space, or even Jaynestown. Firefly had the luxury of intimacy. We miss that in Serenity--there simply wasn't enough time. But what Serenity offers is perspective, the bigger picture. We pull away from the beauty of each tree to look at the majesty of the forest, if you will.

For me, it took repeated viewings to shift gears. I was confused and disappointed too the first time around. My initial reaction was, I hate to say it but Constantine was a better movie. By the 3rd time, I saw what Orson Scott Card and the New York Times/New York Magazine saw. Serenity has a depth and complexity that rivals the best plays out there.

Perhaps Joss' mistake was he is too intelligent and ambitious for his own good. It is hard for an average person like myself to get it the first time around.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

CANTTAKESKY

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 4:34 AM

MacBaker,

Can you edit your post to hide the spoilers, please? Thanks.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

R1Z

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 6:19 AM

Free associating here--

Didn't plan to, but that's how this post is turning out.

I'm just back from my third viewing, and I'm still conflicted. There are a few plot glitches I'm working through. If Serenity is 5 years past Firefly, why does Mal talk about the 8 months Simon and River have been on board? Did they get off for 4 years?

I was in shock after you-know-what in the first viewing, but I'm coming to grips with it. I suppose we can still explore the plot threads that would seem to be ended.

It stands to reason that Mal would be grimmer when dealing with system-wide injustice, as opposed to a threat to just his little crew.

I think what I miss is slipping back into the Firefly 'verse I know, kind of like coming home from the office and taking off the shiny shoes that hurt and slipping into the ratty old sneakers that are only good for painting the garage in. Serenity is shiny and slick and it's not HOME yet.

I get all misty at one point in the movie--did anyone else notice that they used the spacesuits from the tv series? Jayne in yellow and Mal and Zoe in military surplus. It's the only thing I've noticed brought forward from the series.

And I HATE Mal's black suspenders, and he's not wearing the tan-mit-brown-stripe pants that I always assumed were leftover from his uniforms.

Maybe eventually, Serenity will feel like home, too, but not yet.

Thomas Wolfe said it: You can't go home again. I'm afraid he's right. I wish he wasn't.

To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

HKCAVALIER

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 6:46 AM

Aw, Chris...unfortunately, I think I'm the guy you wanna hear from. I've been sitting on posting this because I had a very negative experience with the BDM and I'm too down-hearted about it to get in a fight with anyone over it. By the same token, I can't seem to contribute to any of the other threads until I get all this off my chest. I don't think I have ever been so disappointed in a movie. I'm by no means saying that this is the worst movie I've ever seen. It's a good movie. But I had really high hopes. Higher hopes than I would ever allow myself if I didn't have 14 near perfect to utterly perfect episodes of Firefly to fuel them. So the ratio of hopes to actual outcome is greater than any other movie I can think of. Ouch.

(Warning: this is absolutely the longest post I’ve ever written--and I’ve written some long posts! Sorry in advance. This is prolly the hardest post I’ve ever written as well. I’m very disappointed on a lot of levels. Part of me hopes I’m alone in that, but part of me hopes I’m not. I’ve been visiting this site since before the show even got cancelled. I consider a lot of people here friends--as far as this awkward, flimsy internet intimacy can foster such. I’m not looking for a fight; not calling anybody out. I need to put my thoughts together and share my sadness and frustration with people who’ve been where I've been. I know a lot of you loved the movie and I’m glad. I’m overjoyed, really. I didn’t hate it. It was good seeing everybody again; good to get at least one more episode of the best t.v. show ever. I liked how Mal turned the tables on the Operative. In time, I think I’ll come not to mind the movie quite as much as I do right now. Even so, I don’t think it’ll ever climb above “least favorite episode” status. Be warned, once I get rolling there are constant spoilers, and I don’t soft peddle. But first, a little aesthetics. )

Up to now I’ve thought the two main forces in popular art were plot and character; stories were either plot driven or character driven. There are other less reputable forces that get involved, of course; nowadays, there’s “effects driven,” and sex and/or violence will keep plenty of people entertained in spite of the most incoherent plots and non-existent characterization.

I’ve been thinking about how these different drives engage us emotionally. The plot driven story engages us on a direct, visceral level with the circumstances. There’s a certain impersonal quality; we watch a gun fight, for instance, and imagine what it would be like to be in a gun fight. We’re not thinking about what would motivate us as individuals to get in a gun fight, we’re not thinking about how our gun fighting would affect the people we love, we’re just in it and that’s enough. We don’t think about the characters overmuch; hopefully they’re generic enough not to interfere with our fantasy. Our emotions are personal and primal. Most genre fiction is plot driven (genre driven?) in this way. Most "event movies" for that matter.

A character driven story is very different, primarily on an emotional level. Compelling characters bring us into the story on their terms. We’re not watching “a gun fight” we’re watching the Alliance mole panic and shoot Kaylee in the gut. We’re not thinking, “Youch, that musta hurt!” so much as we’re thinking, “Simon wouldn’t really let Kaylee die, he’s bluffing!” In a character driven story, the stakes for each character take center stage. Our emotions project forward and look backward constantly, looking to consequence and motive. We compare the characters’ reactions to what we imagine we would do under the same circumstances. The characters are not merely vehicles for our vicarious enjoyment, but guides and even fellow participants.

In Firefly, character always trumped plot, even when the plot was at its most intense, we never forgot what it meant for the people involved. But in Serenity there's a thing that trumps character.

Serenity has clarified a third force that’s flown just under my r

RAKARR

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 6:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:
well it makes sense that there would be differences
#1 Firefly wasn't entirely Joss' vision, it was a Big Damn compromise with Fox... Joss said many times that he wanted Mal to be angrier and more bitter.

#2 Firefly was a TV show and they thought they would have 22 episodes to slowly enjoy the characters, their relationships and developing and revealing elements about things
Select to view spoiler:
things like where Reavers really came from

with Serenity we are dealing with a movie, where we don't have the luxury of wasting any time...
characters have to be sketched out quickly so that we can get to the story.
But at least the characters and the story can be what Joss intended,
without anyone trying to tell him what he should or should not do.

I think the comic book was supposed to bridge the gap,
explain changes that had happened on board...
at least it did for me.
But personally I don't have any problems with the movie as compared to the TV show....
I would like to have 22 episodes per year,
instead of one two hour movie every 3 years....
but there is nothing we can do about that.

Heck, I'll just be happy to have more comic books.

It was 14 episodes I believe. I can't remember the last show I saw that had more than 14 episodes to it in a single season. So yeah pretty sure it's 14...

"I am a leaf in the wind."

Big Damn Fansite - Where the Browncoats gather.
http://www.freewebs.com/bigdamnfansite

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