Psychic abilities and phenomena: the scientific/skeptic analysis
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Saturday, August 26, 2006 22:49
VIEWED: 10059
PAGE 7 of 11
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
I think I posted this idea before- one of the ways to possibly determine if physic phenomena are subjective, culture and chance-related phenomena or not is to see if the same phenomena persist throughout various cultures. For example, while in some European traditions "ghosts" may be helpful, and in many Asian cultures ancestors are helpful, in the Navajo culture ALL ghosts are evil. Do any Navajos experience helpful interactions with ghosts? Just curious.
I'm not sure I'd count Ghosts as necessarilly 'psychic' phenomena... but maybe the telling thing is that all cultures has such a thing...
My knowledge of native American Culture is sketchy at best, so correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't animal guides also be seen as ancestors or ghosts?
Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
"Make me one with everything."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chrisisall:
I've been practicing Kung-Fu and Karate since 1974, and in those years there have been moments where when sparring with an opponant, a real 'knowing' manifests itself- usually at a time when all thoughts cease, and every second lasts minutes. It's been my habit not to look at any particular spot, nor to think about any particular thing, nor to feel any particular emotion. And in those moments I've reacted in ways that might be considered unusually aware about what my opponant was about to do.
I too practice Martial Arts, and from my experience what the west calls 'Psychic' pervades eastern Martial Art philosophy.
I remember a particular lesson in Kaibudokahn when I was about 8 or 9, where we all sat at the edge of the mat, eyes closed and facing outward. Our master would come around with a Bokum and try and tap you on the shoulder. You had to move to the side when he did this, so dodge it. I did it, first time, but the strange thing is I could tell he was behind me, by the fact you could feel the foot steps on the mat, you know, but not everytime would he try and tag you. Only once did I feel the need to 'dodge' the Bokum and that was the only time he tried to tag me...
Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
"Make me one with everything."
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I practice the art of posting, without double posting...
Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
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[Apologies to all for lengthy post....]
Simonwho,
That occurrence of "psychic hearing" was about 40 years ago, and I'm not now exactly sure what her brother looked like, but the sister (my friend) was surely aghast. And that was by no means the only such occurrence between us. Another time as I was driving home I passed a crowd of people. My window was open, and I clearly heard someone speak my name. I scanned the crowd but saw no one paying particular attention to me, and no one waving. I arrived home a few minutes later and the phone rang. It was the same girlfriend, who had seen me drive by just as I got to the crowd, and had thought to cry out to me, but she was over a quarter-mile away. Yet I heard her as though she were in the car with me.
On another occasion we both saw the light of a train coming toward us in broad daylight. But there was no train....
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You also asked, "Secondly, why did you repeat her question before answering it? Is that something you usually do? Third, was this some completely unrelated question to the topic you were previously discussing or did it follow naturally on?"
The question was, as I recall, largely unrelated and I sometimes did, and do, repeat questions to be able to address them according to the language or context in which they were spoken.
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And,: "As you say, your dog can see you (albeit it badly) and you can't really be sure what her level of hearing/smell is like."
I didn't clarify this, but the dog is generally out of eye- and ear-shot of me when these things take place. We (the dog and I) have developed a system of hand signals that allow me to control her silently when we hunt together, so she would have to be out of eyeshot for me to have made a claim of psychic communication.
However, along the lines of your suggestion:
"Why not try an experiment like putting your dog in another room, telling her to stay, walking into another room (that the dog can still access but with a door separating you) and then mentally summoning her 52 minutes later (you can't pick the time, it has to be done by someone else)."
I actually did something very like this some years ago when I was in the habit of leaving home and returning at odd hours because of the type of work I did. My mother was visiting at the time, and I also had an old cat. The cat, as my mother repeatedly observed, knew when I was coming home,m though it was impossible for her to have anticipated it except through "psychic" means. The cat would go to her watching window and within 15 or 20 minutes I'd be home. The cat could not possibly hear nor see nor smell me coming that long before I arrived. My vehicle was only visible to the house, and within earshot, for a few seconds before I arrived. My mother saw this happen every day for well over a week, as long as she visited.
Even today, precious little of what I do is by any pattern. I do take the dog for walks, but I omitted those obvious signals in my consideration of the material I presented.
Another time, I had a girlfriend who was a "psychic" healer. Doubtful, eh???? She was an operating-room nurse and had ample opportunites to test her skills. When one gravely ill patient too many for her, whom she had "healed" before surgery, was opened up and the doctors found NOTHING wrong with them, she realized she might be doing the wrong thing. Yes, she healed me one time, and once you have experienced something like this, you'll be a believer for life, no matter what you may have thought in the past. Unless you're a blockhead, of course, or have done psychadelic drugs a lot.
Along those lines, those I know who have psychic abilities have an aversion to certain carnival rides, and cannot stand the blinking lights of most TV commercials, or strobe lights in bars. I wonder who is included here?
What really continues to gall me is that some people continue to deny what for some of us is part and parcel of our daily lives -- and could be part of theirs too if they wanted it. But to fight the existence of psychic phenomen
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Chris,
Your comments about martial arts are exactly reflected by musicians, the best of whom have stated publically that the "little me" has to get out of the way so the "big me" (subconscious) can play through. I've seen this myself with intricate guitar work, which is easier to play whilst watching, say, a baseball game with the TV's sound turned off. I.e., I can play much better when I'm not trying.
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Ruxton, when I finally got serious about Martial Arts, about mid-ninties (yeah, taking classes since '74 and limiting my understanding to encompass mere self-defence technique doesn't count as serious to me), I was looking for the mysticism in it. I studied many styles, had many teachers, and came out realizing that all I had been seeking, I already had. It was all a process of emptying, not aquiring.
I suppose it is the same for all things, the baseball player, the ice skater, heck, Einstein even. Tuning into that energy that puts you in touch with yourself, and lets all things become possible in the moment.
(Okay, I'm sounding like Master Po now, so I'll stop)
E=mc2Chrisisall
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Quote:Research design can control for the biases of the researchers themselves. Ever heard of the double-blind placebo study? Well, in a single blind study, the patients don't know if they've received a placebo or not. In a double-blind study, neither the patients nor the doctors measuring the outcomes know who got the placebos.
Originally posted by citizen:
I was thinking of the scientists themselves...
We all bring our own agendas to the table, no matter who we are.
Yeah, there are a lot of confounders (variables that confuse the results) in psychological research. But psychologists are used to controlling for them. Just gotta have better design and methodology for these types of studies, and interpret the results more carefully.
Can't Take My Gorram Sky
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Sure, and I know it could be done, but the people designing the test will have their own biases that may effect the design of the test and therefore the results...
And at the very least that could be the responce of anyone who doesn't want to recognise the results of the test...
Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
"Make me one with everything."
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Quote:Of course. That is why scientists don't jump to conclusions as the result of any single study. Theory develops after results are replicated, over and over again, by researchers from all places and all persuasions. When it comes to things one cannot control, big numbers and statistics are used to hopefully neutralize those variables.
Originally posted by citizen:
Sure, and I know it could be done, but the people designing the test will have their own biases that may effect the design of the test and therefore the results...
I know science has limitations. But I also know that science, when practiced correctly, works. And in a lot more situations than people think. Science has the *ability* to investigate the paranormal, esp at this stage of our understanding of it. Now whether or not science should or will tackle it--well, those are different questions.
Science is not the end all and be all of knowledge. We know a lot of things that science has never verified, and doesn't need to. We know our parents or our spouses love us. We don't need science to tell us--we just know. Some of us believe in a deity, or a force, or spirituality bigger than our material selves. We don't need science to tell us--we just believe. We choose not to eat in a restaurant where someone came out vomiting. We don't need science to prove the restaurant caused the vomiting--we just don't want to eat there.
Yes, psychic and paranormal phenomena can be properly investigated by science. But in the meantime, lack of scientific study or findings does not negate or (ahem) "disprove" these experiences--not anymore than they negate experiences like love and faith and choice that have likewise never been under scientific scrutiny.
Can't Take My Gorram Sky
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Thank you and well said...
See, to a degree thats the problem with Finn and CUnknowns arguments, lack of scientific study to them proves paranormal phenomena doesn't exist.
Frankly if such an attitude was prevelant within the scientific community we'd still be in the dark ages.
Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
"Make me one with everything."
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