A question for Browncoats outside of the United States...

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Saturday, July 23, 2005 07:55
VIEWED: 4665
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FINN MAC CUMHAL

Monday, July 11, 2005 5:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Please don't mistake me for being anti-capitalist, anymore than I am anti-television.

My apologies if I’ve misrepresented you. It wasn’t meant as a slight, just an observation; you’re arguments do seem to embody, at least at the surface, the anti-capitalist philosophy.

Maybe Andrew and I do represent some superior human breed. I am, after all, angelically good looking and charming. And yes my education does give me somewhat of an edge when I’m not stressed out from work, but I didn’t wake up one day with a Ph.D. and a career at an Army laboratory. Those things take many years of hard work, general American tenacity, student loans, and yes plenty of help from family and friends. In general, anyone willing to put the same hard work and tenacity into their lives and has similar support from their family will likely see similar results. But one doesn't even need my degree of education to do my work. There are plenty of people I work with and even for who don't have the same degree of education, but who are making as much and even more money then I do. There’s a lot of stuff I do that a trained monkey could do just as well, but they pay me good money to do it, because someone’s got to do it.

I do however believe that increasing taxation will diminish the economy. If the US economy is going down the tubes, I think raising taxes will ultimately speed that process not slow it. Now if you want to secure the well-being of your children in as far as the economy is concerned, teach them the virtues of ambition, hard work and resolve. This will go a lot further to making them successful then increasing taxes.

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Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

CHRISISALL

Monday, July 11, 2005 7:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Maybe Andrew and I do represent some superior human breed.

Did you grow up in a place called Manticore?

Actually I would lump most on these boards in the catagory I placed you and Andrew in.

Quote:
Now if you want to secure the well-being of your children in as far as the economy is concerned, teach them the virtues of ambition, hard work and resolve. This will go a lot further to making them successful then increasing taxes.

Agreed. But who to teach them? 'Family Values' should include getting all children off to the best start possible, because of course, they're our future. The government could and should play a biger part in this, if for no other reason that children are an asset to this country in a real financial sense- the more engineers, doctors, and scientists of quality we can nuture, the better for the US in the long run.

Family values kind-of-guy Chrisisall

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Wednesday, July 13, 2005 1:05 AM

So, you want the government dictating family values to you? Telling you how to raise your children? Or maybe just the poor families?

I'm not against the government encouraging family values, but I don't know what kind of roll they can play.

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Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

RUE

Wednesday, July 13, 2005 3:00 AM

I don't think my perceptions changed.

I came from the rust belt where anyone who could get a job worked at least two jobs. Worked my way through college and actually got a job in my field (there were lots of people with bachelors, masters and even phds who bagged groceries because that was the best work available, so I was lucky). Worked the requisite multiple jobs simultaneously for seven years and lived frugally, given the standard pay-scale there. So it was a hard start and lean beginnings, even though I was doing as well as could be expected by local standards.

Then I moved across the country and for a while enjoyed the kind of security that comes with a robust economy. Such is no longer the case.

In fact, yes, power is held ever tighter (micro-managing) while blame flows downhill and politicking reaches places that had been immune.

So while I am doing well, I see the temporaries we hire who are not doing well at all. They have science degrees, are in their 30's, are more than motivated and skilled, and have not, yet, been able to land full-time work.

And I know people who had the misfortune to lose their jobs relatively late in life (company folded, lost contracts, was bought etc) who are also having a hard time finding real jobs.

The numbers show that college and college+ are the largest percentage of long-term unemployed, and I see it in real life as well.

SIGMANUNKI

Wednesday, July 13, 2005 4:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:

So while I am doing well, I see the temporaries we hire who are not doing well at all. They have science degrees, are in their 30's, are more than motivated and skilled, and have not, yet, been able to land full-time work.

I think I would put my wife in this category.

She was looking for a job over the past number of months and wasn't having any luck. So, instead of studying, I started to look for work as her term position is ending end of Aug. I really didn't want to do this, as in my professional area (programmer), the industry chews people up and spits them out (if I would even be able to find work). This is why when I went back to school (couldn't find a job) I did not go into Com. Sci.

But, food must be put on the table, roof over-head, etc. And living on the street is an unhappy thought. She said that we could go to Germany and live there as she has an appartment in a building her parents own (free). Frankly, that is only an option for her. My living arragments were unknown. Still are if this situation arises.

In the end my grades fell, she lucked onto a job. So, there's 8 more months taken care of. After that, the same song and dance again.

Unfortunatly, I'm still going to be as unemployable then as I am now. So, it'll be up to her again.

Hopefully, things will be better then, or I'll be able to get into a grad school being just shy of the degree I want. *sigh*

----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

RUE

Wednesday, July 13, 2005 7:25 AM

First just an observation - so this I think is part of what you have obliquely referred to in the past, in terms of uncertain, unstable conditions. I truly sympathize. (Though at least for now Canadians have something the temps here are desperate for - medical care.)

I didn't realize Canada was also experiencing such a down-cycle for the degreed, though it should have occured to me. I guess I was assuming you had a more technology-based economy with more opportunities for the well-educated.

So apparently a healthy, well-educated, motivated population is not enough yeast to raise the national economic dough. Do you see any answers on a broad economic scale? (I'm not going to ask you about your personal future. When so much is out of your control, it's just impossible to address.)

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, July 13, 2005 1:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
So, you want the government dictating family values to you? Telling you how to raise your children? Or maybe just the poor families?
I'm not against the government encouraging family values, but I don't know what kind of roll they can play.

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear.
I meant that if the government is truly interested in promoting 'Family Values', that they should put up or shut up.
Make sure breakfast and lunch programs don't disappear from schools, for a start, at least. Hungry kids don't learn well, there are studies that prove that (another thing that has studies, 'cause common sense wouldn't have already told us that).
How about paying for college (to be a doc or techy type) in return for a five year stint at public service?
That's where it starts and ends, we could all come up with stuff in between. The foundation for a strong country economically starts with security in families. Kids that have a bad start have less chance of being positive contributors to society, or developing good families of their own.
The present (and past) administration seems to be ignoring this. Like all we need is enough disenfranchised souls to fill the soldier suits.

Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, July 13, 2005 1:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
she lucked onto a job. So, there's 8 more months taken care of. After that, the same song and dance again.

To me in America, job security means that the moment my company downsizes, or closes its stores in my part of the country, that I'm good at looking for work.

It's like hopping between lifeboats, when you're in between islands.

Ain't Lost Chrisisall

HOTPOINT

Wednesday, July 13, 2005 5:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by lynchaj:
The USA is the land of opportunity

Just a minor aside to this. Studies show that despite the ongoing "Land of Opportunity" slogan social mobility is actually lower in the United States than in other developed economies.

You can find a link to a related PDF report on intergenerational social mobility via the URL below if you're interested. My own country (the UK) doesn't do too well on social mobility either.

http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/pressAndInformationOffice/newsAndEven
ts/archives/2005/LSE_SuttonTrust_report.htm

...................................
Hurrah, hurrah, when things are at their worst
With cries of “Death or Glory” comes the mighty Twenty-First

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, July 13, 2005 7:53 PM

In this global economy the poorer countries will become less poor, and the richer countries will become less rich. I'd have less of a problem with that if the gorram rich dungbrains would just accept having that tiny bit less, and get off the little people's backs as if there was a way it could be stopped.

Fortune challenged Chrisisall

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