The Downing Street Memo: Just another empty Anti-War Leftist canard
POSTED BY: lynchaj
UPDATED: Sunday, June 19, 2005 09:05
VIEWED: 15313
PAGE 1 of 9
****snore****zzzzzzzz*****
Anybody else sick of the hatemongering from both sides of the political spectrum? Most of us could give 2 shits anymore. They're all a bunch of power hungry control freaks. The National Review also had an article on Colin Powell, referring to him as a man of no character or principles.
National Review = Newsweek = NYT = Air America = aww christ who gives a gorram?! They're all propaganda machines for their paricular persuasion.
I'm a moderate conservative. I'm pretty much a Libertarian (though I'm beginning to hate labels altogether). Not that it matters anyway. Us little people lost our ability to make ourselves heard the day we started "electing" bigmoney to office.
In the last month , I made the mistake of having a political conversation with a couple folks. One called me a "Neo-fascist Bushie.." (I'm not)
One called me "Pinko-fag Liberal Democrat" (I'm not).
My discussions were based on these opinions:
1)The US should be focused on what Korea is doing and improve our intelligence in those regards, BEFORE we expend the lives of our yound warriors. We need to get the hell out of the Middle East period. Let them find their own freedoms when they are ready.
2)The Personal Retirement account fix for Social Security is Bullshit because it only widens the gap between the poor and the wealthy. 10% of nothing is still nothing.
3) The governement should work to better people's lives, not dictate how people live.
4) Big business should be watched like hawk Worldwide.
5) The EU is a joke. They bitch about how fast Iraq is forming a new government, yet the EU can't get everyone on board in regards to their "constitution".
6) Big Oil should be spending their TRILLIONS of dollars in PROFIT from last year ( What a crock of horseshit, this whole Oil Issue is) on developing alternative resources to help the environment long term. Unfortunately they are all greedy bastards.
Frankly neither gorram party or its mindless followers is getting anything done. So both Repubs and Democrats can pat themselves on the back and say how awesome they are. It's all bullshit.
I live in NY. I know and still feel the impact of 9/11. Because of it, I bought the Iraq WMD story hook, line and sinker. I was lied to, blatantly IMHO. Not by Bush (He's a big gigantic puppet ), but by Cheney and all the PNAC crony shitwads. I was lied to by the Dems as well. Ole Clinton decried similar philosophies during his tenure. I hate feeling like a big tool.
As far as I'm concerned I'm one of millions of disenfranchised voters who were forced to vote for one shitebag over another shitebag (both who were worldclass "C" students LOL) in the last election. My vote didn't count because I voted Libertarian. My father-in Law's vote didn't count (He's a Repub), because he lives in a "Blue" State LOL.
I'm not Anti-war..but I sure as hell know a real canard when I see it. Our government in general is a canard. Our media is a canard. Unfortunately, the folks who are paying for that canardness, if you will, are our men and women in the service.
If Bush ever does something right in regards to Iraq, it will be to bring our boys and girls home before he is out of office.
PS. - I wish they would not have the Real World topics come up on the front page. It's a real downer 90% of the time and has nothing to do with Firefly or The Whedonverse.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Connorflynn:
In the last month , I made the mistake of having a political conversation with a couple folks. One called me a "Neo-fascist Bushie.." (I'm not)
One called me "Pinko-fag Liberal Democrat" (I'm not).
How bout a Neo-fagcist Liberal Bushycrat?
Quote:
(both who were worldclass "C" students LOL)
Hey! I was a "C" student. Middle of the pack, thats me. In a classroom I was average at best, in the courtroom I'm undefeated in Jury trials, appellate cases, and have a 90%+ record in Bench trials. Maybe I'm not worldclass "C" like the President, but I'll take my "C" average and my passing the bar exam (again with an average score) over some honor students I know who could'nt pass is it the first (or second) time round. And a jury NEVER compares resumes when deciding the strength of a case, maybe we should give our candidates the same courtesy.
Quote:
If Bush ever does something right in regards to Iraq, it will be to bring our boys and girls home before he is out of office.
I respectfully disagree. I believe we are doing right in regards to Iraq. We are bringing peace and justice to a country that has known neither. Its an ongoing process. Takes time. But we're making progress. And a free and democratic Iraq is good for the stability of the region and its good for America. And I'd rather have all these Jihadists dying in Iraq then crossing the Mexican Border or through an Isreali checkpoint.
H
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Connorflynn:
****snore****zzzzzzzz*****
Anybody else sick of the hatemongering from both sides of the political spectrum? Most of us could give 2 shits anymore. They're all a bunch of power hungry control freaks. The National Review also had an article on Colin Powell, referring to him as a man of no character or principles.
National Review = Newsweek = NYT = Air America = aww christ who gives a gorram?! They're all propaganda machines for their paricular persuasion.
I'm a moderate conservative. I'm pretty much a Libertarian (though I'm beginning to hate labels altogether). Not that it matters anyway. Us little people lost our ability to make ourselves heard the day we started "electing" bigmoney to office.
In the last month , I made the mistake of having a political conversation with a couple folks. One called me a "Neo-fascist Bushie.." (I'm not)
One called me "Pinko-fag Liberal Democrat" (I'm not).
My discussions were based on these opinions:
1)The US should be focused on what Korea is doing and improve our intelligence in those regards, BEFORE we expend the lives of our yound warriors. We need to get the hell out of the Middle East period. Let them find their own freedoms when they are ready.
2)The Personal Retirement account fix for Social Security is Bullshit because it only widens the gap between the poor and the wealthy. 10% of nothing is still nothing.
3) The governement should work to better people's lives, not dictate how people live.
4) Big business should be watched like hawk Worldwide.
5) The EU is a joke. They bitch about how fast Iraq is forming a new government, yet the EU can't get everyone on board in regards to their "constitution".
6) Big Oil should be spending their TRILLIONS of dollars in PROFIT from last year ( What a crock of horseshit, this whole Oil Issue is) on developing alternative resources to help the environment long term. Unfortunately they are all greedy bastards.
Frankly neither gorram party or its mindless followers is getting anything done. So both Repubs and Democrats can pat themselves on the back and say how awesome they are. It's all bullshit.
I live in NY. I know and still feel the impact of 9/11. Because of it, I bought the Iraq WMD story hook, line and sinker. I was lied to, blatantly IMHO. Not by Bush (He's a big gigantic puppet ), but by Cheney and all the PNAC crony shitwads. I was lied to by the Dems as well. Ole Clinton decried similar philosophies during his tenure. I hate feeling like a big tool.
As far as I'm concerned I'm one of millions of disenfranchised voters who were forced to vote for one shitebag over another shitebag (both who were worldclass "C" students LOL) in the last election. My vote didn't count because I voted Libertarian. My father-in Law's vote didn't count (He's a Repub), because he lives in a "Blue" State LOL.
I'm not Anti-war..but I sure as hell know a real canard when I see it. Our government in general is a canard. Our media is a canard. Unfortunately, the folks who are paying for that canardness, if you will, are our men and women in the service.
If Bush ever does something right in regards to Iraq, it will be to bring our boys and girls home before he is out of office.
PS. - I wish they would not have the Real World topics come up on the front page. It's a real downer 90% of the time and has nothing to do with Firefly or The Whedonverse.
Wow, Connor. I find myself in the unusual position of agreeing 100% with a post in the Real World section. What the hell are we going to argue about??
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Good Lord! Knock me down with a feather! Connerflynn- I agree with you and the Sarge. What is this world coming to? 
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by lynchaj:
The good guys can win occasionally.
LOL.. Not for nothing, but what do we win?
Good friend of mine rolls home from Iraq in a wheelchair. His prize? another 2 years of Rehab.
Another good friend of mine nearly misses being in camp when a suicide bomber blew himself up near the chow tent. What does he win? Another night with sand in his buttcrack and his family on his mind.
The Media portrays our soldiers as war criminals and malicious evil monsters.
What do they win? They get to put their lives on the line for a cause that was pushed by the PNAC behind closed doors. They get to have their situation become even more tenuous then it already was to begin with, because some shitebag of a reporter felt it was important to say somebody flushed a Koran down the toilet.
I get to listen to Madeleine Albright say, "we thought North Korea would follow our wishes about not seeking nukes. They still might." ROFLMFAO
What do we win?
We (the average Joe of the US and around the world) are the good guys, who have to pay for the philosophy of "Manifest Destiny" that our various world leaders and business leaders follow. What do we win?
The Patriot Act II will allow feds to search and seize without judicial warrants or oversight if something is classified as "possibly" terrorism related. What do we win?
MACs are going to start using the INTEL processors.
What do we win?
Big Government wants to legislate how many Big Macs I can eat.
What do I win?
Al Sharpton is going to start studying under Rush Limbaugh on how to run a talk Radio show.
What do we win?
Theresa Heinz Kerry is on some new meds that keep her from talking.
What do we win? HOLY CRIKEYS WE DO WIN OCCASIONALLY!!!!!! LOL
PS.. The "C" Student part above was a joke. The media keeps playing the whole John Kerry and George Bush got 7 "D" between each other in classes like "Coed Ball Scratching", Ancient Mythology and how sex played a part" ,blah blah blah... It's lame shit and I wish they ( CNN, FOX,CBS etc..etc..) would cease to exist. Bring me back the good old fashioned news paper journalist and No I don't mean the Enquirer.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by lynchaj:Quote:
Originally posted by Connorflynn:Quote:
Originally posted by lynchaj:
The good guys can win occasionally.
LOL.. Not for nothing, but what do we win?
We have Saddam Hussein in a freely elected Iraqi government jail cell awaiting trial for his crimes.
Andrew Lynch
heh.. Sorta reminds me of the scene at the beginning of Serenity, when the crew has successively managed to salvage some old boxes of food rations...
Mal: Right, we win...
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
SignyM: Good Lord! Knock me down with a feather! Connerflynn- I agree with you and the Sarge.
Lynch: Oh really? Seems you had a LOT to say about it a few days ago. Change your mind? http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?
Your point is inscrutible, as usual. The Sarge and I had a great agreement in that thread- this seems to be one of the topics we actually mostly overlap. I never thought a leftie like me and libertarians like Sarge and Conner could find common ground. (You should see the go-rounds we've had on other topics!
) So- what's your point again?
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by lynchaj:
We have Saddam Hussein in a freely elected Iraqi government jail cell awaiting trial for his crimes.
Andrew Lynch
What do we do if they "The Freely Elected Iraqi Government" find him "Not Guilty"?
An awful lot of lives IMHO lost to put one bad guy in jail.
I argued with a friend 4 years ago on a message board similar to this one about the reasons for going into Iraq and how it seemed like a smart tactical decision to free the Iraqi's while eliminating WMD's and putting the pressure on Iran as well. I wanted to see radical Islam crushed (will never happen..it's similar to radical christianity or any other form of radical doctrine,(True Liberalism or Conservatism)it's like a cockroach..it will always be around).
Hell, I even sided with Israel, until my eyes were opened.
He told me he felt that it wasn't up to us to bring "Our" brand of democracy to the rest of the world via the point of a sword. It would only cost us the lives of our servicemen and our country's reputation as "the Good guys". We could lead the world in other ways.. i.e. AIDS research, humanitarian aid, education (hell we need to improve our own education system). If we go into Iraq, it will be a big waste of American lives even if we only lost one life.
I argued that Saddam had WMDs and we needed to crush him to preventIraq from aiding someone in another attack like 9/11 and if we freed the Iraqis in the meantime, bonus. Our losses would be minimal for the effort.
Listen to me LOL,
"Our Losses will be minimal"
What a dumbass. The day my friend came home from Iraq, after being in Germany in a hyperbaric(sp?) chamber for 4 months recovering from Mortar burns and other wounds suffered in a roadside attack, and then hear Colin Powell say " I was wrong about the WMDs and that's something I'll have to live with". Screw this Manifest Destiny, God will lead the way bullshit. I want some GODDAMNED ACCOUNTABILITY!!!!
I was wrong. It's not up to us to be the great saviors of the world. We are just Americans who live, eat, sleep, love just like every other sane person in the world. People can only be "free" when they want to be "free". We can't bring freedom to someone who doesn't care to experience "our" brand of freedom. Though for the most part I happen to love our brand of "Freedom" because for the time being I can still see Moreena Baccarin or Jewel's beautiful faces whenever I pop in a dvd =) (who knows how long that will last if we give up all our rights and cede to idealogies in any extreme, i.e. Big Government/Big Religion/Big Business )
We were right to kick the Taliban's ass. We were right to be in Afghanistan. They brought the wrath of the US down on their fundamentalist asses when they backed Osamalamadingdong.
I nolonger believe we were right to go into Iraq. Not to bring one bad guy to "Justice" under the auspices of a lie. The fact is, we originally went to war in Iraq because Iraq supposedly HAD WMDs NOW that they could supply terrorists with NOW. When that didn't pan out, it was because we were bringing Democracy to the Middle East. What the F***! His own people should've bourne that responsibility.
I very much wanted them to find WMDs or at least something, just so I didn't feel like such a big freaking tool. Hell I even jumped the gun on this board once or twice when a bad story popped regarding them. The friends I have over in Iraq mean more to me then Saddam's head in a handbasket. So I admit it. I'm a tool. Not a tool for the reasons that the left (It's all about the Oil) and the right ( we are bringing Democracy and God to the Middle East) may lay claim to, but a tool nonetheless, because I believed my government.
If our men and women are going to die for our freedoms, then they should fight what TRUE threats face us. Not because our government is playing a big game of Axis and Allies. At this rate we are running out of double 6's.
What we are doing over in Iraq, ultimately may be good for the Iraqi people, but it sure as hell isn't good for OUR peo
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Edited to add: I prolly shoulda kept my mouth shut. Since I started typing this post, this thread has veared into very interesting territory which has nothing (thankfully) to do with the Downing Street memo.
Quote:
Originally posted by lynchaj:Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Good Lord! Knock me down with a feather! Connerflynn- I agree with you and the Sarge. What is this world coming to?
Oh really? Seems you had a LOT to say about it a few days ago. Change your mind?
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=18&t=10019
Andrew Lynch
(WARNING: what follows is a mildly rude ad hominem attack upon the personal credibility of Lynchaj. Sometimes people are jerks and you just have to call'em on it. I just couldn't sit through another superfluous thread full of his put-downs and posturing and say nothing.)
Ah, so you do read old threads, eh Lynch? So you know that all this has been hashed and rehashed a hundred times. You say you don't want the Lefty Haters to go unaswered, so you heroically step up, but then you already know that the Lefties have been plenty answered in previous threads. Your ego just too big to post on an existing thread?
This is a discussion board, we all come here to discuss things. Most of us have been here for a while now. I've seen some of the most constructive and respectful political exchanges on this board that I've seen anywhere. I don't see you coming here for a discussion. You come here with your mind made up to put people down. When Signy posted the original Downing Street thread, it was news. You bring it up now only to gratify your malice. Posts like yours are the reason people find the Real World Event Discussion so onerous.
Since I'm here, I'll get something off my chest. Your loyalty to the sitting president is touching, but really, what is he, Pope? He's just a guy with more power than any of us will ever see. His policies affect the lives of billions worldwide. I don't believe he should have gone to war with Iraq. I hold the Commander in Chief responsible for the deaths of our troops and the tens of thousands of Iraqi combatants and civilians. The war was/is unjust and beyond our capabilities to "win." What should I call such a man?
Actually though, I don't need all these reasons to understand why someone would call him an "SOB." I just have to read a transcript of him making fun of Karla Faye Tucker to find the man hateful. (Oh no! I believed something I read on the internet! Save me from myself!)
And BTW, Signy was agreeing with Connor's remarks, and Connor said nothing about Downing Street except to imply that it was irrelivent in the face of the larger issue of the corruption of power worldwide (my apologies to Connor if I'm wrong--and btw Connor, excellent posts).
Personally, I don't find Downing Street particularly damning in itself. So much hangs on that one word "fixing" that I don't see it as conclusive evidence.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
And I'd rather have all these Jihadists dying in Iraq then crossing the Mexican Border or through an Isreali checkpoint.
Did you ever see the movie "Red Dawn" ? The Palestinains are living "Red Dawn".
Sure the extremists/terrorists are pushing a supposed religion based agenda (though it's really all about the money to the higher ups). To the Israelis, Palestinians are similar to what the Indians (*taps the center of his forehead, not patting his mouth and going woowoo) were like to the British Empire, lesser lifeforms. The Palestinian Men, women and children live in fear. They see their friends killed everyday, because the Israeli military follow an "Eye for an Eye" policy. The Palestinians are an Oppressed people. They lose land by the day. Their homes are bulldozed under the auspices of " A militant lived there", to make way for the walls/settlements. When they did find work in Israel, it was as second class beings. The terrorists can only benefit from the spreading of Israeli settlements and the walls and continual killings.
As one interviewer (arab woman, Saira Shah) asked a miltant about a small child who had joined them: "How does it make you feel , to know that he may die tomorrow, doing your bidding? - pointing at a small child"
The Militant's response - " You don't worry about that sister. If he dies tomorrow, he will die a hero and besides, there are 10,000 more just like him, waiting to take his place"
The reason the child joined the militants?
The Israeli army shot and killed his best friend while they were walking to school. "Eye for an Eye"
Oh and by the by: Israel is a Theocratic "democracy". As far as I know,only Jews can be in government. So any thought that Non jewish arabs may get a say or the idea that maybe the countries could all fall under one flag are moot.
Oh and more Palestinians have died then Israelis, since their battles began. I find that particularly telling.
Here's the writeup of a documentary that went a long way in shedding some light on the Israeli/ Palestinian issues for me, there's nothing like watching an innocent person get blown away in cold blood to open your eyes abit:
Death in Gaza
In spring 2003, filmmaker James Miller and reporter Saira Shah, following the success of their Peabody-winning films "Unholy War" and "Beneath the Veil," set out to take a first-hand look at the culture of hate that permeates the Middle East. They captured the lives of three Palestinian children growing up in the bullet-riddled streets of Gaza, indoctrinated in the creed of Jihad, and had planned to show the Israeli side next. But on May 2, in the midst of filming, Miller was shot to death by an Israeli tank, falling victim to the conflict he covered. The America Undercover special DEATH IN GAZA tells this tragic, eye-opening story.
DEATH IN GAZA begins in Nablas, where Miller and Shah witness an explosion that kills several Palestinians suspected of being suicide bombers. "We're trying to understand how people learn to hate so deeply that they're prepared to die in order to kill," says Shah. "So we're looking for the next generation, the children who will make either peace or war." In Nablas, that generation is playing dangerous games with the Israelis, as children shower the tanks that patrol their street with rocks, taunting the soldiers inside.
Leaving Nablas, the production team heads to Rafah, a border town in Gaza, where they become acquainted with three children: Ahmed, a soccer-loving 12-year-old; his best friend Mohammed, also 12; and Najla, a 16-year-old girl who lives in a particularly dangerous area that Israelis are attempting to turn into a security zone.
As Ahmed and Mohammed fire toy guns and play games of "Jews and Arabs" in the streets by day, the real-life militants come out in the streets of Rafah by night - as do the Israeli tanks and night-vision troops trying to track them down. Miller and Shah pay a visit to a paramilitary group that has enlisted Ahmed to do reconnaissance for
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME