On the subject of girls in sexy cloths...
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Sunday, May 29, 2005 18:31
VIEWED: 7137
PAGE 2 of 3
Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Good self esteem is a necessity (as I stated above). But, when it gives birth to an "I'm so good no matter what my weight is, so I'm going to do nothing about that!" That is a problem.
Not only is it delusional (please note that I've seen somewhat attractive cubby people, but it is unhealthy), it's, to put it mildly, unhealthy ie increased chance of heart attack, stroke, hyper-tension (this one further increases chances of the already mentioned), diabetes, etc.
More often than not, I think the attitude is more a cover for having very bad self-esteem. Like someone trying too hard and that could apply to the thin or fat.
My comment came about when you pointed out Richard Simmons, surely a man who doesn't sit around telling people it's okay to be overweight.
Opus
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Well, there is an overwhelming amount of "It's ok if you are a (fill in the blank)" in society today, and the fill in the blank includes everything from pedophile to fat slob.
We've placed so much emphasis on self-esteem, even to the point of being contrary to what the research shows, that it's warping our society. No, it's NOT ok to get an F on your finals, even if you DID try the best you can. We live in a meritocracy, and the self-esteem movement flies in the face of that.
"If wishes were horses, we'd all be eating steak!" - Jayne
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Quote:
Well, there is an overwhelming amount of "It's ok if you are a (fill in the blank)" in society today, and the fill in the blank includes everything from pedophile to fat slob.
That's kind of extreme don't you think? The only people sticking up for the nomrmalcy of something like pedophilia are the pedophiles themselves, not society.
In regards to people who are fat, the weight loss industry is a billion dollar plus, business. I would say the vast majority of the message on being fat is negative, not accepting.
From my perspective we've turned more into a society where everyone tries to use the victim excuse.
Opus
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Quote:
Originally posted by Opus:
That's kind of extreme don't you think?
...
From my perspective we've turned more into a society where everyone tries to use the victim excuse.
Yes, I know it was extreme, but the victim excuse is what what I am alluding to, RE: It's ok to (fill in the blank) as long as you don't feel guilty about it.
How many seriously deranged criminals have used "society made me do it" or "I was abused as a child" as an excuse? I'm sure that there are many well adjusted people who where abused as children, so a causal effect of such a childhood is still far from clear. It's the classice case of the man who claims he murdered his parents because he's an orphan.
I was also referring to the disturbing abuse scandals in the Church and its attempts to hide it over the years.
"If wishes were horses, we'd all be eating steak!" - Jayne
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Quote:
Originally posted by Opus:
More often than not, I think the attitude is more a cover for having very bad self-esteem. Like someone trying too hard and that could apply to the thin or fat.
I agree that what you are saying here happens to a large extent.
My point here is that schools (mainly) are such that they are basically brainwashing kids into thinking that they are super(wo)man regardless.
Both are problems that need to be corrected.
Quote:
Originally posted by Opus:
My comment came about when you pointed out Richard Simmons, surely a man who doesn't sit around telling people it's okay to be overweight.
I pointed at him b/c he does say some stupid things.
He thinks for instance that when lossing weight that no-one needs to take anything out of there diet regardless. I would think that any nutritionist will tell you that eating fast/fried/etc food is something that needs to be gone (at least mostly) to become heathy.
He also is one of the points of origins of this love yourself for who you are stuff. Now this is necessary to have, but he presents it in such a way that people can and do take it for the above extreme that I mentioned above.
Again, I agree with him in principle, but his delivery needs to be adjusted as people are clearly taking it the wrong way.
At this point, I think that we agree in principle, but disagree on some details. Am I wrong?
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"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
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Quote:
Originally posted by Opus:
From my perspective we've turned more into a society where everyone tries to use the victim excuse.
I agree!
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"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
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Quote:There was a theory one of my teenage classmates had about the level of air-conditioning at school and the fact that the building seems perpetually freezing; that it was kept that way in order to discourage certain unfortunate and more revealing wardrobe choices. Although girls wearing tummy shirts in Minnesota in Winter just seems wrong.
Originally posted by Bugboy:
Anyway, this seems to be all over the place...
Quote:As a girl with more than a few wobbly bits her own self, I don't understand how a large-size girl could go out in public with all the cellulite showing in such extreme detail.
Originally posted by Bugboy:
The overweight ones also seem to like black spandex, and I find that SOOOO attractive...NOT!
Some of us won't ever be in the kind of shape that the "super model" fashions are designed for, simply because our health situations say, "sorry, no exercise for you today." That doesn't mean we should dress in tents, but trying to go about looking "like everyone else" brings "fitting in" to a whole new scary level.
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Honestly never never heard Simmons say anything about not taking anything out of your normal food intake. In principle however, I think when trying to start to lose weight that's a smart idea. Change quantity first, then quality, phase out the old , introduce the new. Not going cold turkey.
Opus
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Quote:
Originally posted by Opus:
Honestly never never heard Simmons say anything about not taking anything out of your normal food intake. In principle however, I think when trying to start to lose weight that's a smart idea. Change quantity first, then quality, phase out the old , introduce the new. Not going cold turkey.
He said that in an interview on the Wayne Brady Show.
I agree that changing should be gradual. Of course how gradual depends on how severe the deit was in the first place. I agree that cold turkey rarely works.
Of course, that change in diet should be permanent if the person expects to have a long and healthy life.
Life style change is what I'd propose.
----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
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Quote:
Originally posted by Channain:
Some of us won't ever be in the kind of shape that the "super model" fashions are designed for
I would replace "some" with "most."
It takes a lot of time, energy and good genes to get a body like that. Since most people aren't able to work out full time, and most aren't blessed with those genes, I'd gather it's rare to find those in there 30's or so, looking akin to a model.
Not to mention that even models (to one degree or another) resort to unhealthy behaviour to get those bodies. It's just unhealthy in the other direction.
Quote:
Originally posted by Channain:
That doesn't mean we should dress in tents, but trying to go about looking "like everyone else" brings "fitting in" to a whole new scary level.
I've always been in the "normal" weight range, so I can only imagine what it's like (Please tell me if I'm speaking out of turn).
But, I have seen many an overweight (wo)man dress in a classy way, inside and outside of work. So, it is possible. I just gather that it's rather more difficult.
I think that it's up to society to not condem those that dress appropriately and give constructive critizism in private to those that don't. Anything else will just put more fuel in the fire of this rather sensitive topic.
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"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
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