Would Zoe be a good mother?

POSTED BY: Bytemite
UPDATED: Sunday, December 11, 2011 16:00
VIEWED: 26237
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BYTEMITE

Friday, June 25, 2010 7:16 PM

Yeah, we all know that Zoe wants to be a mother from HoG. So setting aside recent revelations, what do you all think?

She's got the Mama Bear thing down pat. But today, rereading Ella Gregg's recent fic, something struck me that never has before. I think this is something that Agent Rouka had pointed out before, that I never quite got.

"I'm not so afraid of losing something that I won't try to have it."

That's not a good reason to have a kid. I mean, that's CRAZYPANTS, it's really selfish if you think about it. She's practically resolved herself, her child might die, but it's okay because she'd get to be a mother for a while?

I doubt the KID would feel the same way.

Even from this point, she's not putting the needs of her kid ahead of herself. As much as she wants a baby, this makes me wonder if she's actually ready to have one.

*Dodges flames!*

PLATONIST

Friday, June 25, 2010 7:43 PM

Good topic, Byte. And as a Mom, I tend to agree.

My greatest fear for a Zoe child is that she'll continue to choose her loyalty to Mal and her position as first officer over her child’s well being, like she did with her husband, because having a child on Serenity, with Mal as Captain, is a violent place to raise a child.

Maybe she should honor her dead husband’s wishes and find a safer ship for a while, if she should happen to find herself expecting;)

You have to put your child’s needs above your own, it just doesn’t work any other way. It’s your responsibility and no one else’s.

WHOZIT

Friday, June 25, 2010 7:50 PM

Yes but I get the feeling she'd be a little over protective.

PLATONIST

Friday, June 25, 2010 7:58 PM

So is it the same over protectiveness which got her husband skewered?

It’s about making good choices and I just don’t think she’s capable.

KATESFRIEND

Monday, June 28, 2010 12:07 AM

In defense of Mal, he said he had to take riskier jobs because the Tams were fugies. If they were no longer wanted post BDM, the pressure would be off to take easier jobs.

Also, being planetside didn't look much safer than being in the air. If it were, why would so many people like Inara, Kaylee and Wash prefer it to anything else we didn't get to see yet.

BYTEMITE

Monday, June 28, 2010 12:28 AM

It's a good argument, except, how did even the good and/or legal jobs Mal and crew got involved in end up? (like the Cow Job to Jiang Yin)

Luck had a mean streak for Serenity. Even if they went legit, someone would want to try to shoot them and take the goods.

Wash seems to think he knows some places planetside that would be safer. It doesn't look like Wash hopped on Serenity right out of getting flight certified, he's been around the verse, he could know somewhere that would have worked for him and Zoe. Also, it's very possible that with Wash's piloting skills, even if they didn't necessarily go planetside, they could have found a berth on like a luxury cruiser or something. This is basically what Wash's dream is in Better Days.

Serenity's supposed safety didn't stop Shepherd Book and Inara from leaving, and they got off in a system known for Reaver raids. It must not be that bad, Serenity's just been kicking around some pretty low down places, possibly because Serenity and crew are a little low down themselves (even without fugitives).

PLATONIST

Monday, June 28, 2010 2:54 AM

Mal took risky jobs well before the Tams came on board and Zoe was a Dust Devil, Mal even got beat up in her place.

Mal doesn’t turn down good work, risky or not, he’s not going to change his behavior for Zoe’s kid, nor would she expect him to.

Wash’s former jobs didn’t seem all that dangerous or violent; he must have known a different life was out there.

Mal’s mantra is to keep flying no matter what; I just don’t see that happening with a baby on board.

My question is what would be Zoe’s role on Serenity and who’s going to baby sit her kid if she has a child, now that her husband is gone?

RIVERDANCER

Monday, June 28, 2010 6:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
"I'm not so afraid of losing something that I won't try to have it."

That's not a good reason to have a kid.

Might not be, but it is excellent foreshadowing. The story structure of that scene, to me, was always more about Wash than a potential child. She couldn't be so afraid of losing her husband that she wouldn't try for marriage. (and, in the way of such things, babies.)
Maybe I'm reading too much into it, with all that literature study infecting my brain, but every time I watch that scene I get a flash of what's being foreshadowed, and I marvel at the cleverness of the misdirection surrounding that shadow.

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
It's a good argument, except, how did even the good and/or legal jobs Mal and crew got involved in end up? (like the Cow Job to Jiang Yin)

Uh. That... wasn't a legal job. It was explicitly smuggling. The words most commonly associated with that job were "smuggler" "smuggled stock" "black-market (beagles)" and "disreputable men" to name just a few.

Quote:
Originally posted by PLATONIST:
So is it the same over protectiveness which got her husband skewered?

That's just cruel. Cruel and malicious. If Zoe was a real person, she would kick your ass for saying that. If she could have over-protected her way between Wash and that lance, damn right she would have, and you should know that if you paid the slightest bit of attention.

AGENTROUKA

Monday, June 28, 2010 7:44 AM

Byte, you flatter me immensely for remembering my opinion!

It hasn't changed, either.

I think Zoe could be a great mother - if she changed some things. She has a big capacity to love, a lot of patience and can adjust her tone well to suit the needs of the individual person (see River in Janestown). But only when she's not getting bitter and emo about the war, closing herself off and shying away from making choices.

That moment in HoG shows her at her worst. I see a woman wanting a child for the wrong reasons, unready to make the necessary committments and unable to respect her husbands valid opinion on the matter, so that would have been a brutal disaster.
Seeing her trying to stand up to Mal, question his choices and be comforted by Wash in the beginning of the movie gave me some hope, though. After the movie, she could either get worse and cling to Mal more than ever, or finally find herself and make a life of her own with actual room for the things she wants. I'm, of course, hoping for the latter because Zoe is too awesome to languish in a backward-facing life.

SYDNEYDEBS

Monday, June 28, 2010 9:12 AM

I don't see Zoe as a mother at all, she's a fighter and a warrior not a mother. Her argument to Wash was rather half hearted, more she didn't like being told no than what she really wanted.

Serenity is no place for a baby and I'm sure she'd see that and would have to leave by her own free will rather than Mal telling her I'd hope.

Cheers, Deb

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