Inara's secret.

POSTED BY: peacekeeper
UPDATED: Saturday, June 6, 2009 20:50
VIEWED: 50550
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PEACEKEEPER

Monday, May 4, 2009 1:11 PM

Just found a video on youtube from Dragoncon '08.Morena revealed Inara's secret.Is this common knowledge or should I keep my mouth shut?

BYTEMITE

Monday, May 4, 2009 2:08 PM

Round here?

There's lots of people who don't know.

But, every time the hint about the leak comes up, people can either go watch it or enough hints get dropped within the course of the conversation that they can figure it out.

However... I think I'm sensing that you kinda sorta want to talk about it? A lot of us LOVE talking about it. Myself included. So you're not going to hear any discouragement from me.

The most you can do is label your thread well enough for spoilers that people who don't want them will be able to avoid them. Your current title does the job just fine: you're clear about the subject, but don't give it away.

PEACEKEEPER

Monday, May 4, 2009 2:17 PM

So, having updated the thread title,any theories as to what of and how long to go?My own theory;left her homeworld in order to see more of the verse til the inevitable.Wanted to find true love but too scared of the ramifications.Loves Mal but can't commit because of the same reason.Has the vial to stave off misery.On the right track?

BYTEMITE

Monday, May 4, 2009 2:55 PM

I agree that's the general gist of what's going on. She definitely wants to see the verse, I think, and that's balanced with her longing now and then for the creature comforts she's left behind. She's trying I think to strike a balance between those two wants.

Of course, now on top of that is her twisty conflicted desire to continue to be independent, stemming from her frustration with one certain freighter captain. Which is also, in my view, kind of unfortunately escalating. I think she wants to spend her free time browsing rustic markets with Kaylee, going on horse rides, seeing landmarks and natural wonders, and having adventures (like talking smack at Saffron, she completely loved that). But she needs an excuse to keep Mal away, and as they spend more time around each other, she has to work (literally) harder at it. And that's sad, because some rich man/woman's estate isn't exactly representative of the worlds she visits.

Of course, I also think there's something else besides just her secret that precipitated her leaving Sihnon, because it honestly seems like she thinks she can't go back. There's kind of a sadness or weariness there. Personally, I think it has something to do with the scene she shares in Out of Gas with Simon. The commentary says that the two of them knew each other before Serenity. That could just be in the sense of him being a doctor, but I think there's more to it than that. He's a trauma surgeon from Osirius, why would she be familiar with him? And I also think that during the course of her time with House Madrassa, she may have met some civil, respectable, and yet completely unsavoury clients.

Also, from Joss himself, that vial was supposed to kill anyone she had sex with. But... It's possible, considering her secret, and the fact they seemed to decide just what it was in Better Days, that the purpose of the vial has been retconned.

PLATONIST

Monday, May 4, 2009 3:56 PM

On the right track, peacekeeper, although since Inara knows she has no future as far as love and family it is more likely that she was intent on seeing the verse without the complications of love, hence that's why she left Serenity and what she tells Mal at the end of HoG is the complete truth and not a lie. Love is strong and it ties and it is not fair to falsely commit yourself to it when you know you are dying.

In the Serenity companion, Joss says Inara leaves Serenity because she loves its Captain "way too much". I never understood the depth of that statement's meaning until I found out her secret.

As far as the vial, Joss has never commented on what it is beyond what it is not, it was Tim M. who said it was a rape toxin, so I'm not sure if that is retcon or not or Tim was mislead by Joss.

As far as Simon and Inara, it is speculated that Inara may have been treated by Simon at his hospital before she left the core. He may not remember, maybe that's where she got the final news...just tell me I'm a big girl.

BYTEMITE

Monday, May 4, 2009 4:19 PM

I think if it WERE Simon being involved with the finding out, she's be a lot more hesitant at having him around, because he might give up her secret. After connecting so closely to the crew of Serenity she doesn't want ANY of them to know.

And there's also the question of just why she would need a trauma surgeon, who wouldn't be involved in the field of diagnostics so much... Sure, Simon can do diagnostics, he was able to figure out the problem with the crashing patient in Ariel right away, but I kind of think it's something else.

There's also the little clause in Inara's contract about not having relationships outside the guild's consent . I don't think she was quite ready to risk her companion license when she came aboard. What she has found on Serenity is entirely unexpected... And a bit unwelcome.

MALSNARA

Monday, May 4, 2009 4:48 PM

I haven't seen it so could somebody please post the link for me before I read this conversation?

PLATONIST

Monday, May 4, 2009 4:55 PM

How could Simon give up her secret? Hippocratic Oath and all, patient confidentiality is paramount to a physician.

Simon knows in Better Days, although the crew doesn't seem to know in TLB or the movie, except River of course :) and Mal, cause I think he may not know the extent of her condition, but he surmises something is amiss with her.

MALSNARA

Monday, May 4, 2009 5:15 PM

I'm trying to find it on Youtube but I can't find it anywhere. Does anybody have it in their favourites or playlists?

MALSNARA

Monday, May 4, 2009 5:31 PM

Okay nevermind I just found it and I've read the conversation and I have a few questions, You say Inara and Simon knew each other before they ended up on Serenity together but where does that information come from? Also you say he definitely knows in Better Days but where is that shown that he knows?

BYTEMITE

Monday, May 4, 2009 5:33 PM

Platonist: Patient Confidentiality is true... Except this is Simon, who can't lie to save his life, who Kaylee has a crush on, etc. etc.

There's just an awful lot of ways for a secret to get out on a ship so small. Before, Inara was the only one who knew, then if Simon knows and shows up... well. I'm just saying, I don't think Simon knew when he first arrived. I think she confided in him later.

However, I do think they had something to bond over before he got on Serenity. Something that made Simon friendly enough to go to Inara's shuttle and ask to borrow some supplies for the infirmary, possibly have a discussion about something... And forgive Inara when and she aired out some of the dirty laundry between herself and the captain, with poor him stuck in the middle.

I'll come out and say what I think it is if anyone wants me to, but I was kind of hoping to use the idea. You know. <_<

BYTEMITE

Monday, May 4, 2009 5:37 PM

Malsnara: Simon and Inara having met or at least having been distant acquaintances before Simon got on Serenity is stated in the commentary of the episode Out of Gas.

Simon likely knows about Inara's secret in Better Days because he secretly visit's Inara's shuttle in a doctor's capacity... And Mal sees him. Mal pretends like he thinks Simon and Inara are together, but he actually asks Inara a few insightful questions at the end of the comic book that suggests he suspects what's really going on.

MALSNARA

Monday, May 4, 2009 5:42 PM

Thanks so much, I'm actually re-reading Better Days right now but thanks for replying so quickly :)

BYTEMITE

Monday, May 4, 2009 5:44 PM

I actually was just about to PM you the link for Morena's Q+A session, but you found it first. No problem, and tell us about your interpretation of Better Days. :)

Platonist is the one who first pointed out to me that Mal might know too, and after I reread that conversation I had to agree. It adds a whole 'nother layer of tragedy to everything.

MALSNARA

Monday, May 4, 2009 6:06 PM

Oh yeah I see it now, I don't think it ever really clicked for me before what that bit meant. But yeah I reckon Mal know's theres something up but I don't think he think's it's anything serious. If he did then there's no way he would have let up that easily, he would have pestered her or Simon until they gave in. Though I think that Simon takes his Hippocratic Oath very seriously and wouldn't tell people if Inara didn't want him to.

Sometimes you just really, really wanna hate Joss but he's just too gorram shiny for it to ever really stick. How can he do that?!

Is there going to be another set of comics? If there is then there may be something in those to suggest what happened after.

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Monday, May 4, 2009 6:15 PM

*sigh*
Back in '04 I proposed all the facts of Inara's vial and what it meant to the fff.net board and was told I was foolish for making such a call. Now I'm proven true. Alas those folks probably don't even come here anymore for me to feel better about being right.

MALSNARA

Monday, May 4, 2009 6:17 PM

Then well done on being right but how did you figure it out and what exactly did you say about the vial?

BYTEMITE

Monday, May 4, 2009 6:19 PM

Well, the next comic books are called "A Shepherd's Tale," so while they'll be interesting, I don't think they'll quite answer any of these questions.

As for Mal and why he didn't dig more? I think he had a bad feeling just what he'd find out. Or maybe he didn't know what to do with the information. Or both. Inara wasn't going to open up, and she was leaving anyway (and he was still mad about that). So he just dropped it, I guess.

It's a good point you make, though. I don't know if my above explanation is sufficient... I still just like the idea of him suspecting and worrying the whole time. :)

PLATONIST

Monday, May 4, 2009 6:28 PM

I've gone back and read older threads, and I am amazed that a few fans fiqured this out, so kudos to you, bscm. Those clues never made a lick of sense to me, but now her character makes sense.

Morena said her secret was a biggy; horrible and bad, I think we've all been in a little denial;)

BYTEMITE

Monday, May 4, 2009 6:32 PM

Jeez, if she said THAT... Someone needs to put Joss on some antidepressants or something, seriously, it's getting ridiculous.

I know I was in denial. When I first heard the rumour I thought "That makes so much sense because this and this and this, but NO, HE CAN'T DO THAT!"

I've come around though. And actually, I kind of love the story potential for that plotline... So long as he doesn't ACTUALLY... grrr.

MALSNARA

Monday, May 4, 2009 6:33 PM

Well if we aren't going to get more on Inara's secret at least we'll find out some more about Book's. Do you know when they're going to be coming out by any chance?
I think you're right, it probably was the fact that he was annoyed that she was leaving that stopped him from digging further because he doesn't usually stop if he wants to know something.

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Monday, May 4, 2009 6:36 PM

I'd have to dig around the old threads, my old login was thiefjehat then.

The one thing that had struck me was when I realized that the crew members were looking to River in Objects in Space and not relating their thoughts of the moment, but rather secrets they had. Think Jayne: "I got stupid the money was too good" = shame for trying to sell out River/Simon. So I then thought about what Inara said: "I'm a big girl, just tell me" and that's when I realized she was relating to River a time on Sihnon when she was learning something very very bad. After that I started finding all the fragments, the vial in the pilot, the statement to Simon in Out of Gas, the artistic "Look Away" Joss shoots when Inara tells the Client how wonderful Sihnon is and he says "I can't imagine ever leaving": We "hear" the clients words but "see" Inara look downwards in sadness.

The elements fell into place and I brought it up here only to be rebuked by folks that no longer come around.

PLATONIST

Monday, May 4, 2009 6:36 PM

Well, always look on the bright side, B. Joss wouldn't have to kill her like he does everyone else, cause she's already..

ZEEK

Monday, May 4, 2009 6:37 PM

Is there a new commentary for Out of Gas on the blu-ray edition or something? I don't remember anything about Simon and Inara knowing each other before meeting on Serenity.

I'm also not entirely sure I believe that Simon was treating Inara in Better Days. I could easily see Simon being someone who was used to hiring companions. He could have hired Inara as a way to escape his new life and feel like his old self if only for a while.

BYTEMITE

Monday, May 4, 2009 6:39 PM

@ Malsnara on next comic books: Let's see. Delay on account of Dollhouse... Dollhouse unfortunately at this point is probably going to be canceled, so we have to factor in an obligatory three to six month writer's break period while Joss recovers from the loss...

I'd say maybe six to nine months after Fox makes the announcement.

PLATONIST

Monday, May 4, 2009 6:48 PM

Inara doesn't service crew, she's too professional to dishonor that, and Simon has his sleeves rolled up like he's been working when Mal sees him.

Inara uses "friend" and "doctor" to describe their relationship and not "client", so no I don't see him seeking companionship from Inara, he has River and cute little Kaylee for that:)

BYTEMITE

Monday, May 4, 2009 6:48 PM

Zeek: It's in the old one. It's just like a sentence or so during the scene Inara has with Simon, where Simon talks about how unfair it is to die on his birthday. Might even be just speculation, like Alan's comments about how he thinks Wash flew two missions in the war before being shot down and spending time in a POW camp doing shadow puppet performances. But it's there.

Hmm. Simon hiring Inara? She doesn't service crew. And that's not "well, I'll break that rule if someone ever gets enough money to pay for my services," that's ever. She wants to keep her business and private life separate, and imagine the friction that her servicing Simon could cause between herself and Mal, and between Simon and Kaylee! It'd be a very cruel, unthinking thing for her to do.

EDIT: Platonist got there first. And, apparently, is PURE EVIL. These are tears.

Joss better not do it...

PLATONIST

Monday, May 4, 2009 7:11 PM

Rest assured B, Joss won't kill her in the sequel, there are too many other evil things he can do to her in order to cause Mal pain and grief;)

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Monday, May 4, 2009 7:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Is there a new commentary for Out of Gas on the blu-ray edition or something? I don't remember anything about Simon and Inara knowing each other before meeting on Serenity.

I'm with Zeek on this one. I've watched Firefly hundreds of times at this point and have sat through all the commentaries. The OOG commentary simply states in that scene that "This is a scene when we will learn a little something about Inara" that's all. And that "Little Something" stems from her comment "I don't want to die at all"

The proposal that Simon knows about Inara goes beyond the commentary. I shall however, watch it again tonight to be 100% certain.

ZEEK

Monday, May 4, 2009 7:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Hmm. Simon hiring Inara? She doesn't service crew. And that's not "well, I'll break that rule if someone ever gets enough money to pay for my services," that's ever. She wants to keep her business and private life separate, and imagine the friction that her servicing Simon could cause between herself and Mal, and between Simon and Kaylee! It'd be a very cruel, unthinking thing for her to do.

Simon, Book and River seem like pretty big exceptions to the "crew" list to me. Actually I found that scene in Out Of Gas to be showing us how far she's come from the woman who first rented the shuttle. Most of her rules have been broken already. Why not the rest?

I really doubt Simon or Inara would go around telling everyone he was a client if he did take up her services. I just think it would be a very Joss style twist. It makes perfect sense for Inara and Simon. It just isn't the idle romanticized situation we'd all like to see.

PLATONIST

Monday, May 4, 2009 7:27 PM

hmm...Simon IS crew, Mal refers to him as crew without even mentioning his name in his inquiry, Inara KNOWS who he is referring to, as Simon, the crew member.

Simon and Inara do make a lot more sense on many levels, but Simon doesn't seem that interested in sex and he already has her friendship, why would he spend his money on her companionship when he has River to worry about?

MALSNARA

Monday, May 4, 2009 7:30 PM

Seeing as Simon clearly does like Kaylee and his excuse for not being with her is that he was too busy watching out for River I doubt he would have hired Inara. I also don't think that Inara would agree because, not only does she not service crew (and River and Simon are crew - that much is clear from Safe) she cares about Kaylee and knows how much it would hurt her if she did accept Simon as a client. Also where did he get the money from? I don't think the first thing he would do with the money he got from the job they just pulled would be to hire Inara. He's much too responsible to just put what he wants ahead of everything else.
I do agree though that he would need something to make him feel like he was back in his old life now and again though I think he may get that from his friendship with Inara, also everybody else is at the swanky hotel - wouldn't that be enough like his old life for him not to have to hire Inara?

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Monday, May 4, 2009 7:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Platonist:
I've gone back and read older threads, and I am amazed that a few fans fiqured this out, so kudos to you, bscm.

Bingo. Found it.

I had posted my opinions in 2004 to be rebuked by some folks. Then on Feb 4 2005, under my previous alias thiefjehat, I started this thread that got 8 replies:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=4&t=8747

Yup. Threw a bullseye I did.

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Monday, May 4, 2009 7:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Well, the next comic books are called "A Shepherd's Tale," so while they'll be interesting, I don't think they'll quite answer any of these questions.

My guess is that A Shepherd's Tale will unveil the other big secret, that Book was an operative during the Unification War. My guess is that he will deliver the line "I don't give half a hump if you're innocent or not" from Objects in Space somewhere in the graphic novel.

Wheras Joss told Morena about Inara, my sense from seeing Ron at many conventions is that Joss never broached any Book-centric secrets to him. This is why Ron has never "spilled the beans", like Morena.

PLATONIST

Monday, May 4, 2009 7:51 PM

Thanks, didn't know that was you, and sh*t, I should have known this, when all else fails, apply, Occam's Razor.

BYTEMITE

Monday, May 4, 2009 8:02 PM

BSCM: Well, we don't know yet just what that vial was, but it seems funny to have it be unrelated to her secret, doesn't it?

Anyway, nice detective work. :)

BYTEMITE

Monday, May 4, 2009 8:07 PM

Poor Morena! That question was a little unfair, how else was she supposed to answer? "My best friend's sister's in law's cousin's girlfriend says Joss told her that Inara..." Man! At least Morena tried to throw some speculation on whether Joss leaked it at all with her "well, if Joss says it's true..." but then Joss confirmed it.

Poor Morena, catching all this flak. It really wasn't anyone's fault, just someone "threw a bullseye" to use BSCM's phrase.

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Monday, May 4, 2009 8:13 PM

We'll learn the specifics of the vial one day.

Evidence also points to a proposition that Inara is older than she lets on. Nandi relates that she knew Inara on Sihnon and also says to her in Heart of Gold "You look exactly like you did the day I left". While Nandi is certainly middle aged, Inara appears at least 10 years younger. For a time I reached a possible conclusion that Inara had been taking anti-aging meds and that her secret was an unfortunate and unintended consequence of those choices. As to if that was the stuff in the vial? Doubtful. Joss's best stories contain many twists along the way and I eventually supposed the vial was something else entirely.

BYTEMITE

Monday, May 4, 2009 8:23 PM

I've never really been a big fan of the anti-aging theory... The only basis is what she says to Nandi and it seems more likely to me that Nandi was just an older student in a different year at the Academy and the Guild (whichever one it is, Inara suggests in OMR that at least some Companions train at an/the Academy). It seems to me that people are assuming that Nandi and Inara were in training at the same time, and therefore were about the same age.

Could be Nandi was just finishing up training when she destroyed the dulcimer, and Inara was just beginning. Or maybe Nandi was something like the stand-in professor or teacher's aide for classes Inara was attending. Or Inara was her apprentice. Or maybe Nandi was even a fully fledged companion who just lost her temper, decided she'd had it with the lifestyle, and left? I think one of those is more likely.

PLATONIST

Monday, May 4, 2009 8:31 PM

The anti aging theory always made less sense to me than the dying theory and I always thought that Nandi's line not only compensated for the difference in ages of the actresses, but reminded the viewers how incredibly beautiful Inara is, a real Cherry Blossom, like Mal says.
In China, the Cherry Blossom is a symbol of "life's fleeting beauty”, how appropriate for her, if Mal only knew.

BYTEMITE

Monday, May 4, 2009 8:34 PM

Japan is actually the culture that assigns the transient meaning to the cherry blossom, that's why manga books are constantly covered in veritable swarms of falling cherry blossoms.

But the Chinese consider the cherry blossom a symbol of feminine sexuality, strength, and beauty, as well as love, which is also fitting.

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Monday, May 4, 2009 8:41 PM

OK, true. There is no direct statement that Nandi and Inara were apprentices together. I will submit however, that Nandi was not a full fledged companion when she left. In the world of trade union speak: I'd say that she had completed her "apprenticeship" but had failed to complete her training to become a full "Journeyman", choosing rather to smash her dulcimer and jump ship to a rim world.

But we know that some measure of years have passed, otherwise there would be no wonder in the statement "You haven't aged" in a manner similar to Galdalf marveling at Bilbo at the outset of Fellowship of the Ring.

Nandi tells Mal as they drink Rice Wine that Inara could have been "House Priestess" had she stayed on Sihnon, a comment that relates to Inara aspiring to the level of what I would call "Master Craftsman" in my previous tradesman language analogy. There is simply no reason for her to leave that. And when you add the artistic "look-away" in the pilot episode when she concludes her time with her client, I'd reckon she didn't want to. And I guess there is also some merit in supposing that Inara and Nandi weren't direct classmates as you say. So therefore if Nandi never quite became a "Journeyman" while seeing Inara at that level herself aspiring to "Master Craftsman" (Priestess), then that makes Inara older by some amount or another.

Hmm...so if Nandi was "younger" than Inara when they previously knew each other, and now appears about 10 to 15 years "older", exactly how old IS Inara?

That is certainly something to mull over.

PLATONIST

Monday, May 4, 2009 9:01 PM

Re the Cherry Blossom, yes it is often associated with the Buddhist metaphor of life.

Buddhism is from China via India, though, introduced to Japan in the first century.

The Sino Alliance is China and the West, Mandarin is spoken, Inara practices Buddhism.

And no offence to Japanese culture, but it is highly influenced by Chinese’s culture. We here in the West have been exposed to Japan's culture as they are an Imperial Democracy, but if you teach and travel in China you realize the magnitude of not only its age, but its vast contribution to Eastern philosophy and culture.

BYTEMITE

Monday, May 4, 2009 9:08 PM

Nandi ALSO says that Inara would have been the youngest house priestess in the history of House Madrassa, and says that was long after she (Nandi) left. Inara left House Madrassa 2.5 years before the start of Firefly, and got on Serenity 1.5 years after she left (Bushwhacked).

I figure it's been about ten years since she and Nandi last saw each other. And if those ten years run between Inara's early twenties to thirties, Inara could plausibly not look very different enough to be complimented on it by Nandi, and could have nearly been elevated to House Priestess if she took her work as serious as she seems to in the series.

Also, you can call any girl (not just your sister) Mei Mei as a term of affection, but you do not call an older woman Mei Mei. It's a breach of social etiquette.

BYTEMITE

Monday, May 4, 2009 9:14 PM

Platonist: True enough on China's influence on Japan, but I think this is one very real difference between the two cultures in the terms of symbology.

When I was drawing my "Cherry Blossom" picture, I remembered hearing about the meaning of cherry blossoms from my Japanese classes; however, this was so long ago that I wanted to go look up the meaning just to be sure.

When I googled it, I turned up bunches and bunches of web pages discussing the differences between the two outlooks on cherry blossoms.

PLATONIST

Monday, May 4, 2009 9:37 PM

Agree, fully, on the symbolism in both cultures. I was coming from Mal's POV which is more Chinese, as he speaks Mandarin and English, and maybe there is semantic irony in his choice of words:)

BYTEMITE

Monday, May 4, 2009 9:50 PM

I think so. :) Good thing Mal isn't very familiar with Japanese culture.

CELLARDOOR

Monday, May 4, 2009 9:58 PM

I step away from the computer for a couple hours and the topic gets 40 more replies! :) It's been great reading (if frustrating/depressing) going over this topic. Keep it coming! (I wish Joss would too, grumble, grumble)

NCBROWNCOAT

Monday, May 4, 2009 10:51 PM

Just got home from work and read the WHOLE thread.

Here's my personal take on Inara. She was on track from day one at age twelve, when she first entered the Training House, to be House Priestess. There are some people that are so focused that the object of their focus is widely known and other people can see it without any problem.

And being a Companion is a "family business", according again to Moreana. If I was a daughter of an illustrious line of Companions, I'd aim for the top too.

And something did happen to drive her from Shinon. My personal theory is that she got into the way of someone (either another Companion or a client)very powerful and even though she was the innocent party, she "volunteered" to leave until things were better on Shinon.

I can see the House Priestess phrasing it something like this. "It would be best if you were to remain quiet about this little incident. In fact, I have a very special job for you.

You're the strongest among us Companions and you've always wanted to see the 'Verse, so why don't you be our ambassador among the Rim and Border planets? There are many potential clients there and Companions have always been a "civilizing" force. You'll bring a bit of Shinon to the Border and Rim planets and you will be paving the way for your sisters to come." In a very flattering, persuading voice of course.

And I don't think that the Guild knew about Inara's secret. Companions have to be and need to be in good health and Inara acts as if no one knows about her secret but her and her doctor, whoever that is.

This is all conjecture of course, until Joss fills us in one way or another.

http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/

BYTEMITE

Monday, May 4, 2009 11:06 PM

*Stares at NCBrownCoat*

Um. Well. Are you psychic? o.o

NCBROWNCOAT

Monday, May 4, 2009 11:33 PM

I'm feeling OK except for lack of sleep caused by my seemingly perpetual move from a big old house to a newer, smaller house.

Honestly, I've thought that way about Inara for a long time. And it seemed to gel after seeing the Companion Papers.

I thought about Inara's family in a little fic called "Mal's Cold". She describes her upbringing as a daughter of a Companion to Mal so that he know where she comes from.

I've always been a student of history and about a week ago I was watching a documentary on prostitutes in the West on the History Channel.

Prostitutes were usually the first women that came into a settlement that was almost exclusively male and they paved the way for the "respectable women", wives and families that came after.

But in Inara's case it's a bit reversed. The "respectable women" are already in there but it's the Companion that brings culture and upper class ways and morals.

Must be another of Joss's perverse tweaks at society.

http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/

BYTEMITE

Monday, May 4, 2009 11:37 PM

Oh, I agree absolutely. In fact, I would say that what you described is the only way it CAN be.

On western history: I have my sneaking suspicions that in the Rim the progression was whores for terraforming crews, families with the 'lil woman, then companions.

NCBROWNCOAT

Monday, May 4, 2009 11:55 PM

That would be the correct order of things.

http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/

PLATONIST

Monday, May 4, 2009 11:55 PM

Interesting speculation :) I like the idea of her mother being a Companion and the Guild not knowing about her health issues. Although, Inara never strikes me as a liar when it comes to her Companioning credibility, or maybe she was going to hide her illness until she couldn’t perform anymore. Maybe that’s why she goes to the Training House to teach instead of hitching a ride with a luxury liner.

The whole thing is kind of sad when you think about it, especially when she has no fantasy future or hopes and dreams in Better Days, except to be with Mal.

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 12:00 AM

Agreed. Better Days is all about the fantasies the characters have, the way they'd like their lives to go.

It says something that Inara's one fantasy is Mal, and Mal has no fantasies.

Also, I've said it before, but Inara's reaction to Mal talking about having children in OMR... Viewed through these lenses, it's as heart-wrenching as when she cries in HOG, or tells Mal that she's leaving.

CELLARDOOR

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 12:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ncbrowncoat:

And something did happen to drive her from Shinon. My personal theory is that she got into the way of someone (either another Companion or a client)very powerful and even though she was the innocent party, she "volunteered" to leave until things were better on Shinon.

Since we don't hear much about rivalry within the guild, but surely it must exist, this sounds like a very plausible reason for leaving. I know companions aren't exactly geisha, but there are enough similarities that I'm sure rivalries and competitiveness would arise. Plus, Atherton is enough of an example that companions can cross clients leading to political ramifications (though of course in Ath's case he crossed the line and ended harming his own reputation).

NCB, I can see a scenario like the one you're theorizing being enough of a reason for Inara to have to leave, and get that wistful look in her eye when thinking about Sihnon. Leaving was clearly not her first choice.

To stay on topic though, I doubt the guild would necessarily know about Inara's condition if she wanted to keep that sort of information hidden.

Quote:
Originally posted by Platonist:
The whole thing is kind of sad when you think about it, especially when she has no fantasy future or hopes and dreams in Better Days, except to be with Mal.

Uhhhhmm... that's a sad fantasy? Oh, or are you saying the situation's sad because that's her only fantasy, and the fates (aka Joss) have seen fit to cut her life and potential time with Mal short? Gotcha, I read that wrong. 'cause it's not a sad fantasy if ya ask me.

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 1:27 AM

Either way, I think...

Don't get me wrong. Mal is a great character (both in writing and, sometimes, in morals), but he'd also be a very difficult person to live with.

I don't envy Inara the trials she has ahead of her.

CELLARDOOR

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 1:32 AM

Oh, no doubt he'd be a difficult person to live with. ...If they argue like that NOW? Heh. :(

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 1:59 AM

Buuut... If they ever worked out the issues, aside from the fights, they'd probably be good for each other.

Inara needs someone real who's not after her just for prestige, who'll encourage her strength and wisdom but check some of her core-born naivety. Mal needs someone nurturing, who can endure and temper his worse moments, and keep him from doing things he would hate himself for.

Plus, take away some of Mal's darkness and violence, and they both have pretty similar senses of humour. And they can find appreciation in a lot of the same things.

And Mal isn't ALL bad. If he mellowed out some, he might actually be able to give back some of the nurturing. He's certainly very good with Kaylee and River, it's not something he's completely incapable of. And he definitely cares enough for Inara.

BEATLESFAN

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 2:16 AM

Holy cow, huge discussion. I read about half of it and am still confused as heck. Is this something I'm gonna learn in one of the comic series or is this something I can learn now and not feel bad for being spoiled?

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 2:24 AM

Ha! And this is just one day's worth! :)

I'm also pleased to know that we're being subtle enough to not completely give away the secret to someone who might not want spoilers...

The comic book Better Days hints at it, as does some moments in the tv series, but no, neither comes out directly and says what's going on with Inara.

What we're going off of is something Morena Baccarin maybe kind of leaked at DragonCon 2008, and which Joss has since confirmed. If you really want to know, it doesn't take more than maybe 30 minutes of looking on youtube.

And if you really really want to know now, send me a PM, I'll PM a link back to you.

If you don't want to know and keep it a surprise for any potential sequels, well... That's going to be tricky. It's not quite common knowledge, but it's common enough that someone might slip with a spoiler or hint a little too strongly. I knew long before I ever actually saw the link (even if I tried to pretend I didn't).

NCBROWNCOAT

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 2:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by CellarDoor:
Oh, no doubt he'd be a difficult person to live with. ...If they argue like that NOW? Heh. :(

I'm sure the teacups and what ever else would fly every once and a while, but the makeups would be sweet.

http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/

BEATLESFAN

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 2:43 AM

I saw the vid - and I had gathered as much as is in the video. What I was wondering is, do we KNOW why or how or whatever? I'm guessing all this talk about Simon and Inara knowing each other and the vial and all are from the comics?

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 2:46 AM

The vial in question is from the pilot episode, when they first encounter the Reavers.

Simon being involved/finding out about Inara's secret is in the comic book Better Days. :) But it's subtle there, too. Just ask yourself why she might need to see the doctor.

PLATONIST

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 2:55 AM

Well, I guess I did imply that it is sad that Inara's only fantasy is being with Mal especially with him the way he is.

It is easy a lot easier for Mal to be Big Bro Captain to Kaylee and Captain Daddy to River, that's him in his hero roll; he gladly accepts that part of his person. But to love someone completely and unconditionally in their time of need, takes resolve, faith, and a sacrifice of your fear of loss...it's the part of Mal that needs the most work, and Inara knows it, “I’ve seen so many different versions of you”. And how is she ever going to be able to tell him with her knowing Mal is as emotionally fragile as a man that will sleep with the first whore who can successfully seduce him because he’s feeling emotionally rejected.

Okay, I hope this doesn't sound too negative on the Mal and Inara ship, because you know I love their interactions and I'm a hopeless romantic. This can't work without Mal proving he can be that person for her, I dunno... is he nearing that at the end of the movie?

CELLARDOOR

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 3:07 AM

I'm... not gonna comment on the movie, since I know Beatlesfan is reading this and hasn't seen Serenity yet!

But on Mal's emotional fragility, I think if they ever actually aired their feelings, a fair degree of strengthening and healing might occur given at least a little time (and I love the fan fics that show this!). I think Mal's actions in HoG wouldn't necessarily be cause for Inara to fear habitual relapses (though if her secret is legit, she'd probably bring a lot of insecurity to the relationship). It's not like he's Jayne or something...

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 3:11 AM

At the end of the movie? Not really... he came for her when she needed him, but he really wasn't too affectionate about it. He thought it was amusing, up until the point he remembered what it was like having her around and started getting confused and feeling cut down.

He tries to play the hero role for Inara, but she doesn't really want that, and that's the only way he knows how to be there for anyone. The inspiring big brother former rebel sergeant bolstering up the people under his command.

It's unfortunately not too effective in a romantic capacity or something requiring a little more sensitivity, unless hero worship turns into something else. Not likely in their case.

Maybe he showed some sensitivity towards her while she's struggling to figure out her new place in the verse. I figure it took about six months after Mr. Universe's moon to get Serenity flying again.

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 3:16 AM

Oh, and I just watched the commentary again, and Zeek was right, the Simon Inara met before thing isn't there. I was sure it was.

I just KNOW I've heard it though... And it sounds like other people on this thread have too.

Maybe it's in the making of documentary in the special features?

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 3:17 AM

Also, I hope my previous post didn't give away any serenity spoilers.

CELLARDOOR

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 3:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Oh, and I just watched the commentary again, and Zeek was right, the Simon Inara met before thing isn't there. I was sure it was.

I just KNOW I've heard it though... And it sounds like other people on this thread have too.

Maybe it's in the making of documentary in the special features?

hm, I have NO idea what you're talking about, but I am still relatively new, so... I haven't read "Better Days" yet either, in case that matters for the reference you're talking about. It sounded to me like the "prior introduction theory" was more like speculation to me?

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 3:31 AM

Could be, but it was speculation from either one of the crew members, or one of the writers besides Joss Whedon.

Considering how they adopted some of Alan's ideas about Wash...? That doesn't necessarily count against it. But only if I can find the damn reference... Hmm.

They are pretty friendly from the get go, though, even though I don't think it's in a romantic attraction way.

CELLARDOOR

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 3:42 AM

Well, they're both from more civilized portions of society. It's only natural that they would gravitate towards each other for conversation and be more at ease in each other's presence. Plus, their jobs both come with the professional/client confidentiality responsibilities, so there's another later of kinship. I do NOT see a romantic attraction, just mutual respect.

BEATLESFAN

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 3:49 AM

I saw Serenity tonight, so no more worrying about spoilers :)

That being said, I think that at the end, his remark was more of a "Yay back to the way things were before." I think that they were sort of okay in the roles they played never really voicing their feelings. I think they both wanted to say something, but that "Ready to get off this heap, back to civilized life?" "I, uh, I don't know" "Good answer" exchange, I think, had the subtext of, "I want you to stay, will you?" "Of course." "I'm glad."

CELLARDOOR

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 3:51 AM

Exactly, Beatlesfan! Just like how "As you wish" can mean "I love you"! :)

BEATLESFAN

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 4:05 AM

PERFECT analogy. And I really think the only way they would say something would be in a situation similar to "Our Mrs. Reynolds" where Mal DOESN'T say something stupid like "I KNEW you let her kiss you!" before Inara spills her guts. Cause you know if one of them does then the other will.

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 4:16 AM

If Mal believes she's not just messing with him, that is. Always kind of an issue he has.

BLUEEYEDBRIGADIER

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 5:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
At the end of the movie? Not really... he came for her when she needed him, but he really wasn't too affectionate about it. He thought it was amusing, up until the point he remembered what it was like having her around and started getting confused and feeling cut down.

He tries to play the hero role for Inara, but she doesn't really want that, and that's the only way he knows how to be there for anyone. The inspiring big brother former rebel sergeant bolstering up the people under his command.

It's unfortunately not too effective in a romantic capacity or something requiring a little more sensitivity, unless hero worship turns into something else. Not likely in their case.

Maybe he showed some sensitivity towards her while she's struggling to figure out her new place in the verse. I figure it took about six months after Mr. Universe's moon to get Serenity flying again.

Hoo doggy…lots of tasty tidbits to contemplate when it comes to Mal and Inara, I must say! And boy howdy do I have few things I’d like chew on with y’all!

;)

Firstly, I honestly don’t see Mal’s decision to sleep with Nandi as a sign of emotional fragility on our Capt. Tightpants’ part. If Jayne has supposedly had opportunities since joining the crew of Serenity to visit bordellos, brothels and houses of loose morals to have himself a good ole time (at least up until around the time of Inara’s departure post-Those Left Behind,” since I get the impression from Mal’s mini-rant to Zoë after leaving Lilac in the BDM that things have been thin on the ground re: jobs for a little while) while in port, then Mal certainly has had the same amount of opportunity to release the tensions generated by Inara’s desire to keep business and pleasure two VERY separate things. To me, Malcolm Reynolds is a contradiction in personality in that he can do familial and leader-subordinate relationships quite well (his paternal/big brother role for River and Kaylee, and his ‘master and commander’ role for Zoë, Wash and Jayne) BUT 1-on-1 interpersonal relationships that have NOT evolved from the two previously mentioned roles freak him the hell out…especially when it’s Inara he’s dealing with. His success at familial and organizational-oriented relationship obviously come from his past as an Army NCO for the Independents and from living on a ranch in his childhood…it’s familiar, it’s ingrained, and it allows him to move at a personally comfortable pace as he builds up a relationship. However, as we see with his interactions with Inara and YoSaffBridge (and possibly from how Mal treats Zoë’s relationship with Wash) during the series, individual interpersonal relationships are things that Mal notably struggles with when they start creeping into his worldview; Mal’s daemons, I think, play a major part in his struggle, as Mal’s remark to Inara during the BDM about how she will be all too aware of when Mal has begun to fight hits me as Mal telling Inara “I have a monster inside of me you’ve yet to meet and you’re REALLY not gonna like what you see if it comes out to play.” Mal, to me, is someone who perceives himself as someone who has had to (to paraphrase lyrics from the 80s band Quaterflash) harden his heart and swallow his “tears” as a manner of coping with his personal losses and the consequences of taking actions he has come to deem as monstrous (i.e. booting Crow through Serenity’s port engine, shooting one of the Lilac trading station’s guards during their escape from the Reavers, etc.) to protect himself and others close to him. I think, to Mal, Nandi was someone who he could actually relate to outside of his usual comfort zone because he saw her as a kindred spirit in eking out a life completely different then they grew up in via cleaning up and efficiently running the Heart of Gold; his ability to let down his guard enough to share a night of comfort and passion with Nandi definitely struck a blow against the fragile relationship Mal and Inara were developing on screen, but not because Mal ca

ANOTHERSKY

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 6:11 AM

Bytemite: Simon can't lie to save his life? I beg to differ.

If and when Simon tells, it will be patently obvious and no longer really a secret--he'll just confirm.

BlueEyed: wooo-eee. That's some post. I think you got quite a lot of it. :)

PLATONIST

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 6:38 AM

Nice post BEB, like I said if Mal can only connect intimately with a women when "the moon is in the second house" to borrow from an earlier song, there's not a chance in hell he’ll be ready to offer Inara any emotional comfort when she needs it. If kindred, free, and available are his criteria for an intimate liaison, how can she ever trust him to be human enough to understand her plight which is void of choice and bravado.

There’s nothing empowering in the way she is dying, there’s no choice in it either. Mal’s never going to relate to that unless he grows beyond judging people in terms of how useful they can be and how similar they are to him. He needs to move out of his comfort zone.

In his defense I think Mal is the one who recognizes this by stating that he wishes he had never met Nandi. He sees his own weakness in, again, not being able to save her, he reverts to his Captain mode once again. Unfortunately, it confirms Inara's intuition that Mal is not strong enough emotionally to be trusted with the knowledge of her fate.

PEACEKEEPER

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 9:46 AM

Wow.what did I start here?

NCBROWNCOAT

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 11:34 AM

Peacekeeper,

Browncoats are a deep and insightful bunch with many points of view despite what other fandoms think of us.

BEB, many good points there (and great to see you around). and Mal and Inara both have to change a bit in order to have a successful relationship.

Unfortunately I have to go to work, but I know you'll talk amongst yourselves and I'll have lots to ponder this evening.

http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/

ALIASSE

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 12:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ncbrowncoat:

And I don't think that the Guild knew about Inara's secret. Companions have to be and need to be in good health and Inara acts as if no one knows about her secret but her and her doctor, whoever that is.

I'm really impressed with your whole analysis: so when is YOUR Inara's Dying fanfic coming?! But this bit I'm quoting here in particular adds so much - can you imagine HOW sad and lonely she must be, when she has no-one to confide in at all.

WARNING: I'm really good at killing threads, hope this one goes on (I'm in a different time zone, so can only join in after it's all over... sigh...)

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 2:15 PM

I actually disagree with the Nandi take, BEB. Not too much, it's mostly I just have a slightly different view.

Nandi is strong, intelligent minded and confident business women, who left the Core to pursue a life unfamiliar to what she had known. I agree with that, and that this is something about Nandi he respects; because it's ALSO something he respects about Inara.

It could be the kinship of leadership, but ultimately, that's not how Nandi seduces Mal. Or why she can. Or why he won't let Inara.

The conversation he has with Nandi is largely one of Rim laws, values, and behaviours that Mal is comfortable with. Saffron, who also very nearly seduced Mal (and who he tried to resist, albeit weakly, because she acted like she didn't have confidence in herself), her story was one of a poor lowly girl from Triumph and marriage to him was her only way out.

I see it more being more about perceived social stations.

With Inara, there's aspects of him not knowing what about her is real and what is the companion, but that really is just exasperating an element that made him have a hard time trusting Simon at first. Like Nandi, they're from the Core elite, but unlike Nandi, they've held on to their social mannerisms and pretentions. Mal does not understand these behaviours, even a watered-down version like we observed at the Persephone Ball. Their Core manners makes it harder for him to figure out what they're about.

Unlike Simon, however, Mal is attracted to Inara, and he's put her up on a pedestal that's possibly been reinforced by his post war experiences.

Despite Mal's "screw you" attitude towards of everything Alliance, and his rebellious law breaking whenever he can get away with it, I think Mal's been institutionalized a bit. Remember the Serenity pilot, when he asks Dobson if there's a reward for Simon? Granted, Simon didn't know the whole story, and completely deserved it when Mal decked him, but he also hit a nerve when he called Mal on it. If Dobson hadn't told Mal that he considered everyone on the ship culpable for harboring fugitives, before hearing Simon's story, Mal would have turned Simon over without a second thought.

I consider it entirely reasonable that Mal probably spent some time in a POW camp after Serenity Valley, and that the time there broke him down enough that anything Alliance or Core is something to be intimidated by. And in Inara's case, I think this has influenced a perception of himself as lowly, and her as superior. And he doesn't like feeling that way, nosiree, and with Inara he's able to express his anger about it.

That deflated self worth is just another obstacle between the two of them that will have to be overcome.

However, BEB, I do think you're right about your assessment of Mal's interpersonal skills and that Mal and Inara have baggage between them. My argument is that freedom to act isn't ALL there is to it. Most of the baggage between Mal and Inara are inhibitions they've constructed to keep the other out. At the root of it all, what really keeps them from acting on their feelings is, for Inara, her secret, and for Mal, Inara's career as a companion. In Mal's case, it's not a matter of pride at all, but rather the worry that he'll ruin her.

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 2:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ncbrowncoat:
Honestly, I've thought that way about Inara for a long time. And it seemed to gel after seeing the Companion Papers.

You and I are in the same vein as far as analysis goes. However, I have not read the companion papers. This was new to me when you wrote it. Where are they available?

I wrote a full in-depth analysis of Blue Sun that took me about two weeks to work out in my mind which I then posted on my blog. I'm interested in all of the varing issues related to the verse and had planned to write more blogs about the subjects of:
1. Book's Secrets
2. Poitical Causes for the Independents
3. A philosopher's analysis of my very favorite episode, Objects in Space.

And of course Inara's secret. However, this is the one I have my mind wrapped around the least, and this thread has become, by far, the best discussion of the subject on fff.net. Morena herself has become a key part of the discussion because unlike Ron Glass, Joss actually TOLD Morena things. For a few years now I've gone to places like DragonCon and watched browncoats ask pointed and direct questions about Book to Ron who has no idea what to say in return. Ron is just an actor to whom Joss shared no information. He can't help us. And often he looks confused as if he doesn't understand what we're even asking him or where our knowledge-thirst is coming from. Morena on the other hand KNOWS THINGS. Joss told her the secret AND what was in the vial. She would get these pained expressions at each con as we relentlessly assulted her with questions: Friday Panel "What's the secret?" Saturday Panel "What's the secret?" Sunday Panel "Tell us the freaking secret!" Multiply that in your mind by several cons to see how intense the pressure on Morena has been. Sometimes I kinda feel sorry for her position, but I still wish she'd just tell us what was in the gorram vial.

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 2:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Beatlesfan:
Holy cow, huge discussion. I read about half of it and am still confused as heck. Is this something I'm gonna learn in one of the comic series or is this something I can learn now and not feel bad for being spoiled?

Dude, I've been peeling back the layers of this subject since 2004 and with 5 years of time still don't have it 100% worked out, so don't feel bad.

CELLARDOOR

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 2:25 PM

Here's the transcription of the Companion Papers from the Blu-Ray disk, transcribed by a dedicated fan, and as reported to us by NCBrowncoat:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=2&t=37626

I must say, it's pretty interesting reading. We certainly see some of what Inara would face if she were to break guild policy and go off alone or run off with a certain freighter captain.

Oh, and as long as Morena keeps holding back with the information, I hold out hope that she still thinks a further Joss-helmed production or comic is possible! :) The actors just... all need to drive safely, not smoke, and avoid any extreme sports that could lead to untimely death. Selfish though that is of me to say. ;)

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 2:37 PM

Reads like a "non-compete" contract I myself signed in 2006.

By her very actions in the episode Trash she colluded with her ships captain to play an active role in swindling a certain priceless laser gun from a wealthy Alliance Citizen. I'd say that at least violates:

If at any time it is determined that either the above-named Ship, its crew, or the above-named Companion are engaging in activities viewed by the Alliance or the Companions Guild as extra-, sub-, or illegal, all authorizations of this trust will be made null and void.

It also demonstrates her feelings for Mal to willingly place herself at risk like that. Beyond that she was:
1. On board when the crew sold stolen food rations to Patience on Whitefall.
2. On board when the crew stole meds from the Paridso miners for a local crime lord before "returning" them.
3. Got pinched for poking around on a reaver raided ship.
4. Smuggled cattle from Persephone to Jaingyin for Lord Harrow who wished to evade taxes.
5. Got wrapped up with Tracey's human organ smuggling scheme.
And above all lets not forget that she:
6. Has been knowingly flying around the verse with 2 high profile Alliance Fugitives, one of whom is a Blue Sun sculpted psychic assassin.

At least she was elsewhere when the crew raided the hospital in Ariel City.

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 2:41 PM

AnotherSky: When does Simon give any indication at all that he can lie believably? In Jaynestown, at the beginning? The only time he even comes close is in the Serenity pilot, when he leaves out the fact that he's the one who actually went in to save River, and that's not so much a lie as it is a half-truth. He was still helped by some underground resistance, they still put her in a cryogenic chamber and shipped her to Persephone, and it still took probably a large sum of money and luck on his account. Technically, he didn't lie at all.

Or maybe the Serenity movie, when he's actually rescuing River? So long as he had the proper identification (had to, or they wouldn't let him in), and had medical expertise enough that he seemed like someone the Alliance might send to inspect progress, he wouldn't have to lie at all. He just let Dr. Mathias keep talking, asking questions he would genuinely be concerned about.

Hmm, but I'm kind of getting off topic here.

What does everyone think Inara has? It'd have to be something moderately slow progressing, that doesn't have too much effect on her physical wellbeing, because she shows no outward sign of having any problem.

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 2:45 PM

BSCM: Fun, aren't they? Also notice in those papers a complete lack of any mention of compulsory medical check-ups. Hint hint.

PEACEKEEPER

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 3:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ncbrowncoat:
Peacekeeper,

Browncoats are a deep and insightful bunch with many points of view despite what other fandoms think of us.

BEB, many good points there (and great to see you around). and Mal and Inara both have to change a bit in order to have a successful relationship.

Unfortunately I have to go to work, but I know you'll talk amongst yourselves and I'll have lots to ponder this evening.NC, I never suggested otherwise.I am proud to class myself among them. Its just that a post of mine has never generated so much attention. Glad to see Ive hit a nerve is all.

http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/

PEACEKEEPER

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 3:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by peacekeeper:
Quote:
Originally posted by ncbrowncoat:
Peacekeeper,

Browncoats are a deep and insightful bunch with many points of view despite what other fandoms think of us.

BEB, many good points there (and great to see you around). and Mal and Inara both have to change a bit in order to have a successful relationship.

Unfortunately I have to go to work, but I know you'll talk amongst yourselves and I'll have lots to ponder this evening.

http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/

NC, Im not suggesting otherwise.Glad to class myself as one of them. Its just that one of my threads has never attracted so much attention.Glad to have contributed something worthy of discussion is all.

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 3:57 PM

Platonist: I don't think Mal necessarily judges people based on how useful they are. Objects in Space and the Lilac Run aside, River tends to be far more trouble and in need of protection than the amount she gives back. Yet he lets her stay.

Or Shepherd Book. Initially his perspective is why the hell would I want a shepherd around? Shepherd Book is a pretty good cook from what I can tell, and seems to know an awful lot about clandestine operations, but none of that is why he stays either.

If all Mal really valued about people is how they are useful (to him), his initial impression of Inara would have been "rich, pampered, spoiled, useless." Which I don't think is the impression he got at all. And I really don't think he enjoys it when she uses her companion status to save his neck, even though it's quite useful for him!

Nah, a person who only values others for their uses isn't just Mal-practical, they're narcissistic sociopaths. Mal appreciates plenty of other things about his crew than just what uses they have. What would Mal be without Kaylee's cheerfulness, Book's wise common sense, Wash's sense of humour and sometimes friendship, or Zoe's loyalty? River's important to him, not just cause she's a reader and a pilot, though what about her it is... Maybe her combination intellectual and childlike wonder or playfulness? Jayne is important because he represents straight-up self-interest, which Mal uses to protect the crew. Mal does respect Simon's unexpected bravery (quiet guy like that, who'd have thought?), that is, when Simon isn't punching him for taking River on a job, or annoying him, or being too sarcastic... And Inara. I'm not sure there's anything about her he doesn't appreciate.

Nope, I think our Captain has a secret sentimental side. :)

BEATLESFAN

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 4:17 PM

In his mind if has to be secret. I think that he sees some weakness in Simon because of his absolute dedication to his sister. Even when River does something that really gets them into a lot of trouble, Simon is there trying to defend her, and I think Mal sees that as a bad thing. Perhaps he doesn't want to be in a position where he's expected to do the same for Inara. And when he is talking with Wash in War Stories about how it splits alliances having inter-crew relationships, it kinda of hints that he knows the same would happen with him and Inara, that he would have to show her more dedication than the rest of the crew and his ship, which makes him uneasy.

In the pilot Serenity, when the soldier at the beginning is dying Mal totally ignores everything else and tries to talk to the guy to keep him alive. I think if he knew that Inara was dying that he would feel the need to do the same basic thing with her, and he is afraid to.

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 4:35 PM

Hmm. Not so much a weakness... Mal is able to see and understand the heroic nature of Simon's struggles, and it's the kind of heroism Mal wishes he still had but thinks he's too jaded for.

But Simon doesn't realize none of the crew can get anywhere without each other and that his best bet to save his sister is to be loyal to the crew, instead Simon chooses to be loyal to his sister above all else.

And that's something Mal would see as an inconvenient complication. :)

However... As captain, he would see a conflict of interest in getting involved with anyone on his ship. Much like as a sergeant in the war. He thinks he owes it to the people under his command to keep a clear head, and to keep the situation on the home front stable. He would like the other crew members to take their obligations in this regard as seriously, but being as this actually isn't war time, he doesn't have much chance of it.

He also really, REALLY doesn't want to lose any more people he cares about. He's haunted enough as it is, and he blames himself a lot. So he's developed a sort of distancing mechanism to keep anyone from really knowing him or getting close.

And judging by all his pony-tail pulling, Mal hasn't had too many mature reciprocated relationships with women. He kind of doesn't know HOW to act. And his upbringing seems to have left him kind of repressed, both religious and in the values of masculine strength he appears to have been taught, so he doesn't have any way that he knows how to express his desires, and seems inclined to try to ignore them out of his own embarrassment.

But yes, the prospect of Inara dying, and how to be there for her/comfort her when he has no idea how, that would be very scary for him.

CLIOSMUSE

Thursday, May 7, 2009 5:52 AM

How did I miss this entire discussion? Sigh.

Love all of these thoughts, though. I will continue to mull over it all to my heart's content.

SHINY

Thursday, May 7, 2009 6:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Platonist:
I've gone back and read older threads, and I am amazed that a few fans fiqured this out, so kudos to you, bscm.
Bingo. Found it.

I had posted my opinions in 2004 to be rebuked by some folks. Then on Feb 4 2005, under my previous alias thiefjehat, I started this thread that got 8 replies:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=4&t=8747

Yup. Threw a bullseye I did.

There was a discussion about this theory at least as early as January, 2004:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=2&t=3415#36893 (if you look in the middle of that thread somewhere, I'm the first to suggest that the "I'm a big girl, just tell me" line was actually someone Inara once told a doctor...)

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I don't need a gorram back-spaceship driver!!!

BYTEMITE

Thursday, May 7, 2009 2:08 PM

I spent all that time arguing with BSCM that part of Inara's secret may have to do with anti-aging... But as I think about it, even though something about the theory doesn't quite sit right with me, and even though I think Nandi was more admiring than outright shocked, so Inara isn't outside normal expectations...

There really isn't any reason for Joss to have drawn attention to her appearance and age unless something was significant about it.

I kind of like the idea of something degenerative, like relapsing multiple sclerosis, or maybe something progressively degenerative in the cerebellum and brain stem. Something that she could hide the signs of, or wouldn't show signs of for a long time, that would keep her higher functions intact as she just slowly shut down. Maybe she might take medication to slow the degeneration, and some small amount of anti-aging is the side effect?

Anyway. I still haven't rewatched the making of documentary, but I think another possibility for the Simon and Inara meeting before reference could be in the pilot episode, during the commentary when Mal finds the two of them having a conversation in the shuttle.

CLIOSMUSE

Thursday, May 7, 2009 2:31 PM

Of course, this is the exact take I'm taking on the anti-aging in the fic I'm writing. I do think it's there, in the series – but the part of people's theories that don't sit right with me is that she'd be taking something in ORDER to stay young. I don't think Inara's vain. She's beautiful, but she's not vain about it in the least. If she is taking something to prevent aging, I think it has to be something also meant to slow the progression of a disease. Which I buy as possible, though that doesn't mean that I think in any way that she's dramatically older than she looks. I certainly don't buy that she's actually fifty or something. Morena's about my age, so she would have been 23 or so when the show was shot. We're probably meant to assume Inara's in her late twenties. I don't buy that this would make her more than 31 or 32 though. Just looked it up, and Melinda Clarke was about 34 when she played Nandi. I'd bet Inara would be a few years younger than that.

CLIOSMUSE

Thursday, May 7, 2009 2:35 PM

PS. Definitely going to look at those DVD commentaries today re: Simon and Inara. The conversation at the beginning of Bushwhacked does feel rather... familiar.

BYTEMITE

Thursday, May 7, 2009 2:59 PM

Really? Maybe I'm not so angry with your version of Inara's mother then... Although I still get the feeling there may have been negligence and poisonous mothering involved.

But yes, I'd think that would be what makes sense, given the information we have. The idea of Inara flattering her vanity at any cost is a major unspoken part of the reason I've been uneasy with that theory as well.

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