Alien IV
POSTED BY: wytchcroft
UPDATED: Thursday, January 24, 2008 09:22
VIEWED: 3652
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Recently watched this again – always a better film than I remember!
I know the wrath of Joss has been visited upon it, - “shot wrong, cast wrong, scored wrong and the director made wrong choices”, and something along the lines of “It’s a text book of how NOT to make a great Alien film!” – and if the aim was firefly then he’s right… but the SEEDS of something ‘versal are definitely there…
Sure the crew are a little lacking in, uh – charisma (but try AVP!!) and the monsters look a little off (unlike in AVP where they are righteous, annoyingly enuff!)… but there’s plenty to enjoy (apart from that company sergeant and his over acting – his eyes pop out larger than John Hurt’s stomach – sidebar, did Joss write the great halloween Alien gag in Roseanne? Ah, Darlene…).
And the Serenity Found essay on the ‘Weaponised Women of the Whedonverse’
( adopts Enid Coleslaw voice – “Alliteration –it’s a riot”) is right to point out the connections… I was struck by, Ripley “But why do you care?” Call “I was programmed to.” Which is something that maybe Doll House will pick up. Both women have had their heads messed with ala River.
Also – it may not be scary but it is tense – in fact hyping the Alien sequels on the ‘terror’ is pretty dim. Alien 3 aint scary either – it’s still a fascinating (yeh yeh flawed ok ok) film. Is Starship Troopers scary? Nope, but it got marketed right compared to Alien 3 and 4.
I love the look and feel of The Betty and the big company vessel too – it does feel like we’re in space - and the creepy scientists.
Not all the gags work, Sigorney’s “so who I have to f---” line falls flatter than skylab – but there are also some great one-liners (in the joss manner) – and nice moments, Winona and the boxing gloves for one.
What do other firefly fans make of Alien IV???
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Ah yes, sweet android girl Annalee Call; makes an impression, doesn't she? :) Winona, with those gorgeous eyes!
I liked Alien 4 a lot better than its predecessor. And The Betty and crew really have something 'Verse-y about them. I truly believe Joss was, in part, inspired by Alien 4 for when he had Firefly on the drawing board. Especially their 'Jayne' character, Johner. He has some very Jayne-y lines:
"Don't push me, little Call. You hang with us for a while, you'll find out I am not the man with whom to fuck!"
"Must be a chick thing."
"I thought synthetics were supposed to be all logical and shit. You're just a big ol' psycho girl!"
In earnest, I wouldn't have minded seeing a show called The Betty or some such, with just their crew on it. It's got everything: space, a stunningly beautiful girl (Winona Ryder), outlaws, an Alliance of sorts; and, last but not least, a raggedy vessel to traverse the, erm, 'Verse. :)
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
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I don't think it's as bad as most people seem to say it is. There is a lot wrong as you stated (same as with Alien 3) but there are some good things about it too. I think Joss's comments are right from his point of view because it's personal to him, he did the writing and spent however long working with it, and what appears on screen is obviously not what he intended. If someone else had written it they may feel the same way, but we have the advantage of looking at it from an outside perspective. There's nothing personally invested in the film from us.
I haven't actually seem this film since finding out the Joss wrote it so I can't comment on any telltale signs from him but when I do watch it again I will be looking out for them.
One thing I did hate with a venom was the final creature hybrid thing. It was just stupid and wrong.
One of the big draws for me in watching Alien 3, Resurrection, AVP and eventually AVP-R is the Alien itself. The creature is one of the best ever conceived and is a major draw for me watching these sequels more than the plot or actors etc. I like how even now they aren't really explained, we don't know where they are from or that much beyond how vicious they are and how they evolve.
I have a similar thing with the Hellraiser movies. Most of them are complete crap but the Lament Configuration keeps me interested in finding out more about it.
So I like it just because it has the Alien in it.
"I don't believe in suicide, but if you'd like to try it it might cheer me up to watch."
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Quote:
Originally posted by wytchcroft:
Recently watched this again – always a better film than I remember!
I know the wrath of Joss has been visited upon it, - “shot wrong, cast wrong, scored wrong and the director made wrong choices”, and something along the lines of “It’s a text book of how NOT to make a great Alien film!” – and if the aim was firefly then he’s right… but the SEEDS of something ‘versal are definitely there…
Sure the crew are a little lacking in, uh – charisma (but try AVP!!) and the monsters look a little off (unlike in AVP where they are righteous, annoyingly enuff!)… but there’s plenty to enjoy (apart from that company sergeant and his over acting – his eyes pop out larger than John Hurt’s stomach – sidebar, did Joss write the great halloween Alien gag in Roseanne? Ah, Darlene…).
And the Serenity Found essay on the ‘Weaponised Women of the Whedonverse’
( adopts Enid Coleslaw voice – “Alliteration –it’s a riot”) is right to point out the connections… I was struck by, Ripley “But why do you care?” Call “I was programmed to.” Which is something that maybe Doll House will pick up. Both women have had their heads messed with ala River.
Also – it may not be scary but it is tense – in fact hyping the Alien sequels on the ‘terror’ is pretty dim. Alien 3 aint scary either – it’s still a fascinating (yeh yeh flawed ok ok) film. Is Starship Troopers scary? Nope, but it got marketed right compared to Alien 3 and 4.
I love the look and feel of The Betty and the big company vessel too – it does feel like we’re in space - and the creepy scientists.
Not all the gags work, Sigorney’s “so who I have to f---” line falls flatter than skylab – but there are also some great one-liners (in the joss manner) – and nice moments, Winona and the boxing gloves for one.
What do other firefly fans make of Alien IV???
I liked Alien Resurrection quite a lot. It made sense to me that some rogue military general would somehow eventually get involved with the Alien "project". There are many great moments in the film, and even Winona Ryder did a decent job of it.
As for Alien 3, I almost like this movie more than any other. It's dark, gritty, and very creepy. The inmates on the planet, Fiorini 4 (I think?)were terrific. Murderers, rapists, and other assorted misfits of society left almost alone to fend for themselves on a penal colony planet was a great backdrop to the continuation of the story from Aliens. The "sermon" that Charles Dutton gives over the death of Newt is very powerful, and for me it's probably the highlight of the movie. It's amazingly beautiful & poetic, and coming from him it's quite unexpected. I thought all the inmates as well as the doctor and the warden did an admirable job of acting, and the whole thing just looks and feels very real.
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I like to think of A:R was the rough draft for FIREFLY. Most of the important elements of the crew are there, just sort of mixed up:
Elgyn is a Mal who never got his faith back, and Johner is an R-rated version of Jayne. Christie is a mix of Zoe (the compotent, military, and dare-I-say dark-skinned second) and Jayne (woman's name on a big, scary guy). Hillard is a proto-Wash (but female, not nearly as funny, and with the captain rather than the second). Call is a mix of River (dark-haired girl with a secret) and Kaylee (cute mechanic... Heck Annalee Call, Kaylee Frye, even the names are similar).
Only Vriess (the wheelcheer-bound mechanic) doesn't have an analog in the Serenity crew, although his relationship with Johner echoes the Jayne-Wash dynamic a bit, and as the "elder statesman", one could argue a bit of a Book vibe (bit of a strech, I know).
It may be worth noting that the original draft included two other members (Rain and St. Just), bringing the crew size pretty close to what we've come to expect. Add in Ripley, and you've got nine (although still no Companion or preacher!).
Although the tone of the crew of the Betty is a bit darker than Firefly's, remember that Joss has stated that he WANTED Firefly to be even grimmer and grittier, but that Fox disagreed.
It's my understanding that when dreaming up the idea of FIREFLY, Joss first came up with the world, then populated it with characters. I suspect it went something like this:
"Okay, I've got this great idea for a sci fi Western setting. Now I just need some characters.... Hey, I know what I'll do. I'll take the crew of the Betty and change 'em just enough that most folks won't notice it at first! Oh, wait, I don't want an android in my world so what can I do instead... Hmmmm. Psychic, maybe?"?
Nothing wrong with it. Just saying...
www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."
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I saw A4 in the theatre, and initially, I quite liked it- still may buy it on DVD sometime- it had a kind of poetry to it.
But it was no 'Aliens' Chrisisall
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Ok, I did actually like Alien 4. It had good elements but was executed poorly. I also agree with the earlier comment about the hybrid being wrong. As with much of that film, cool idea, crappy reality. I know a lot of folks don't like this one but for me, the worst of the franchise have to be Alien 3 and AVP. I just can't stand either of them.
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Op: You're fighting a war you've already lost.
Mal: Yeah, well I'm known for that.
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[threadjack]Aw, everybody putting down Alien 3. Personally, I like that one. The way I see it, each of them is about something different. Alien is about terror. Aliens is about action and fighting back. Alien 3 is about despair and finding hope. And Alien 4 is about... okay, I haven't got that one figured out yet. Nonetheless, from the point of view of Alien 3 being about the urge to give up when it's hopeless, I think it's an awesome movie.... [/threadjack]
"Your gratuitous jello awaits." - Dr. Helen Magnus, Sanctuary
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Saw it once, wish I didn't. It was just awful from beginning to end. Completely unnecessary, the new alien creature at the end was just pathetic and it didn't seem like a primer for FIREFLY. More like a last ditch attempt to a franchise whose last good installment was ten years prior, and I refuse to be in denial. A piece of shit is a piece of shit, no matter how well you try to disguise it.
One thing I get ticked off is when I read somewhere that whatever 90's blockbuster Joss did a re-write on that it was because of his input that the movie had any genius. I think that's stretching it to the extreme. Like TOY STORY. TOY STORY has and alway be the brainchild of John Lasseter, Andrew Stanton, Pete Doctor, Joe Ranft and all the other people at Pixar. Joss was only brought in for re-write work, and Lassetter (realizing how monumental of a film they were doing) decided to give him credit for his work. Great move by a great man.
But I like to give him credit where credit's due with the shows he's created where he was in charge.
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"And it starts with a sentence that might last a lifetime, or it all might just go down in flames. If I let you know me, then why would you want me? Each day I don't is a shame. Each day I don't is a great shame."
Loudon Wainwright III - "Strange Weirdos" off the "Knocked Up" soundtrack
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It isn't great but it isn't half as bad as was made out on its release. There are some great set pieces:
1. The underwater chase
2. The atmosphere in the first 20 minutes.
3. Any scene with Ron Perlman trying to flirt with Ripley
4. The clone scene
5. The Crew of the Betty.
It's downfalls are:
1. The Hybrid Alien at the end. That is just terrible. (as has been stated)
2. Winona Ryder's character.
3. Lack of urgency between characters.
4. Aliens just aren't menacing enough.
What is a shame about the Alien sequels are that they just can't live up to the impact of the first one. Sure you want another sequel, because the Alien creature is such a fascinating monster, but ultimately the more you see of it the more it becomes a man in a rubber suit.
Remember the days when Alien sequels would take years before being given the green light? Rumours would fly about, endings needing to be altered due to similarities with other summer block busters, or a multitude of writers would struggle with the script rewrites, resulting in rifts and backstabbing through the sheets of variety, directors would crumble at the wayside over 'creative differences' with the studios. All mouth-watering stuff to the fan, as the idea that quality was to be adhered to, and classic was a pre-requisite....
....Hardly though eh? Look at us now: Alien vs Predator, and Alien vs Predator Requiem, both toned down for the target audience! Neither concept proving much of a draw for Hollywoods premier directors. So we have 'Director for hire' Paul w.s. Anderson ruining AvsP and two brothers who run a special effects shop having a crack at a low budget, low concpet follow-up....
....We're a wisker away from a camp colourful alien vs predator MUSICAL!!!!!
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