Found & Copied Serenity Deck Plan

POSTED BY: BountyBoy56
UPDATED: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 09:50
VIEWED: 19645
PAGE 1 of 1

BOUNTYBOY56

Saturday, December 27, 2003 8:14 PM

Now mind you it isn't the floorplan, it's a deck plan, like the one's next to elevators on cruise ships and the like. It's from the feature "Serenity: The Tenth Character" on the bonus disc in the DVD set. I'll scan my little rendition and post it up as soon as possible for all who want to see. Here's hopin my scanner plays fair (which it doesn't always do.)

MANIACNUMBERONE

Saturday, December 27, 2003 9:01 PM

This isn't complete or completely accurate, but well, there it is.

http://www.magicbishop.com/fungoodies.html

LEEH

Saturday, December 27, 2003 9:53 PM

Thanks for posting the deck plan. Being a visual idiot, I would benefit from a floor plan too--any intention of doing one?

MOOSE

Sunday, December 28, 2003 12:25 AM

Cool! Thanks!

MANIACNUMBERONE

Sunday, December 28, 2003 1:24 AM

I had thought of doing a complete floor plan with all the layout of every piece of furniture and whatnot, but it was daunting.

LEEH

Sunday, December 28, 2003 1:46 AM

LOL! Skip the furniture (although I appreciate the thought). I'd settle for just a sense of what rooms lead where. I've figured out that the lounge is just outside the infirmary, which in turn appears to be right by the cargo bay. And I can see that the crew quarters are right outside the cockpit. Beyond that, I'm a bit lost, so I"d love a sense of what leads where. . . . If you ever feel up to it!

MANIACNUMBERONE

Sunday, December 28, 2003 2:57 AM

so you're wanting labels on things?

LEEH

Sunday, December 28, 2003 4:12 AM

LOL again! That's me--label lady!

Actually, I really just want to be able to visualize where different areas of the ship are in relationship to each other. This is probably obvious to a lot of viewers, but I'm kinda spatially impaired and so I'm having trouble imagining where the engine room is in relation to the dining room, etc. Sad, huh? Of course, if the show had been allowed to produce more than 14 episodes, I could have watched it a lot more and figured out the damned spatial configuration on my own . . . so this is all Fox's fault, in fact!

Anyway, if you feel so moved to label the deck plan, I at least won't be complainin'. . . .

SOUPCATCHER

Tuesday, December 30, 2003 11:15 AM

Cool deck plan!

On a somewhat related note, I've been trying to get a feel for movement around Serenity and there's at least one thing I can't figure out. There's two entrances onto the bridge. Where does the ladder going down go to? This is the one Mal and Jayne come up while arguing at the start of Objects in Space right after River gets disarmed.

Monty: "I SHAVED MY BEARD FOR YOU, DEVIL WOMAN!"

LITTLEXANDER

Wednesday, December 31, 2003 12:22 AM

It's mentioned in a couple of the DVD commentaries that it goes down to a lower level of the bridge. It originally had some sort of couch-type arrangement, but it was replaced with a status board later on. I don't think it actually goes out of the bridge.

------------
When you can't run anymore, you crawl. And when you can't do that... yeah, you know the rest.

TURBO100

Wednesday, December 31, 2003 2:27 AM

Cool, thanks for your work on this!

KERNELM

Wednesday, December 31, 2003 4:01 AM

I thought the area that had couches was an area that is seen, the corridor leading up to the bridge. I think the couches were removed before anything was actually shot there (or there might have been minor reshoots). On one of the commentaries, either "Serenity" or TTJ, Joss mentions that the other ladder doesn't lead anywhere we've seen, and is in fact nebulous so that it could be an area of further exploration later in the series.

DITHER

Wednesday, December 31, 2003 5:16 AM

If I remember rightly, Nathan and Joss were discussing the now missing couches during "Serenity". Thought they said they were right in front of the pilot's console.

As for the ladder going down in the nose, I would think a bathroom for the pilot. Don't want him hunting down an available facility if he's meant to be flying the ship.

CAPNRAHN

Wednesday, December 31, 2003 6:24 AM

Greetings! I am a newbie here at FFF and thought I'd jump in with certain recklessness.

I am in the process of making a model of the Serenity and thus have done a bunch'a research on the Firefly class.

So, I thought I would lend my techno-geek talents to your endeavor.

Here is my first offering ...

http://members.aol.com/capnrahn/ffcu

My sincerest apologies for the GIGANTIC size of the pic ... I'll reduce it and put up the smaller one soon.

And yes, I stole it from the DVD ... Just wanted to let you know I don' mind admitin' to a bit of petty thievery

I also got the wireframe Serenity and a bunch of screencaps of the ships interior (pristine - no actors etc) from the "Serenity-the tenth character" short.

I hope ya like it my Browncoat brethren! Let me know whatcha think.

"Remember, there is only ONE absolute - There ARE NO absolutes!!!"

SOUPCATCHER

Wednesday, December 31, 2003 10:17 AM

I was hoping someone would get that schematic off the DVD! Thanks CapnRahn!

From listening to the DVD, I had interpreted the couch area the way that Dither and Kernelm did - that it was an area on the set but not part of the ship.

The bathroom makes a lot of sense, Dither. Hadn't thought of that. I've got to re-watch Objects in Space to see if both Jayne and Mal are coming up the ladder or just one (possibly the bathroom has multiple capacity).

Whatever it is, it's got to be self-contained to the bridge like LittleXander suggests since Saffron sealed off just the one door in Our Mrs. Reynolds (I don't think the camera ever panned off her during that sequence after she knocked out Wash so she couldn't have locked a door leading down).

Thanks all for answering a newbie question. After looking at the schematic, another one cropped up. In Heart of Gold, Kaylee and Wash seal the trespassers in the back hall and Wash effectively traps himself in the engine room. Isn't there another way out of the back hall leading to the catwalk? And how did Kaylee and Wash get to the Dining area when the bad guys were on the catwalk?

It's times like these I wish I could run around the actual set :)

Monty: "I SHAVED MY BEARD FOR YOU, DEVIL WOMAN!"

CONGOCHRIS

Wednesday, December 31, 2003 10:37 AM

About how Kaylee and Wash get past the baddies on the catwalk, there's a set of stairs next to the infirmary. Adam Baldwin mentions them as a place he used to sit, and as having been used when he was carrying Kaylee up to the engine room with Book in "Serenity" (if that was the title of the pilot, I don't rightly recall at the moment) Not sure where they're supposed to come out, but it's got to be a shortcut to the engine room. Can't see Jayne carrying anyone further than he absolutely has to.

SLOWSMURF

Wednesday, December 31, 2003 12:23 PM

I have no idea how they sealed the badguys, as there is indeed a 3rd exit there(which doesn't have a visible door, however as evidenced in out of gas the stairways between decks can be sealed off somehow)

The back hall has an exit at the engine room, dining room, and midway through a staircase that heads to the infirmy(sp?) area(its that staircase) They use that staircase all the time in various eps, some examples that come to mind are in bushwhacked thats where mal leads the troops, as previously mentioned in the pilot, and the "special hell" sequence in OMR.(there are plenty more, just random examples)

WERZBOWSKI

Wednesday, December 31, 2003 5:06 PM

Shiny...supremely shiny. You have no idea how long I have scoured the net looking for this. You have my many thanks for posting this.

"We will rise again!"

CAPNRAHN

Wednesday, December 31, 2003 5:35 PM

No worries and my pleasure!

Here is another tid bit from the Serenity short ... hopefully I won't have to resize this one

This should be the most accurate side view, as it looks like the 'wireframe' that was made by 'zoic (the CGI folks that did the EXCELLENT wrok on both Firefly and Battlestar Galatica 2003)

I skimmed around the site here a bit, but dinna find a better place to post BIG pics ... Is there page or submenu for just art that I am missing?

Heh, meebe the techno's of us here ought to request a tech section - called Kaylee's room or somesuch. My imagination is a bit faulty at the moment, so pardon my lack of it.

http://members.aol.com/capnrahn/FFWF.

"Remember, there is only ONE absolute - There ARE NO absolutes!!!"

BOUNTYBOY56

Wednesday, December 31, 2003 6:34 PM

Ah good, thanks CapnRahn for pullin that off the DVD. That's what I hand-drew over the course of an hour with it paused on my tv, and then I posted this thread to show it to you all, and my scanner broke. Was feelin real bad for lettin' everybody down, but then Maniac came to the rescue with his own deck plans! And now CapnRahn even has what I was going to originally post, I love this little online community we got goin.

CAPNRAHN

Wednesday, December 31, 2003 6:39 PM

No worries BountyBoy56! I can't wait till yer scanner gets repaired and you post yer drawing.

I have sat down and paused shows and spent a looong time doing the same thing as you did before I got my DVD drive for my comp.

Doing screencaps REALLY helps out when observing and replicating props, costumes, ship layout etc.

I really like working in tandem with others. I had hoped I had not waded in with my size 10s and mashed anybody's toes. I especally didn't want to tromp on ManiacNumberOne talented toes.

Tiz good to know that others feel that us Independents gotta stick together!

{EDIT}
I just had an idea ... anybody have a current version of a 3D floorplan program?

We could do the deck plans on the program and, with the right type of floorplan program, you can do a virtual tour of the Serenity!

"Remember, there is only ONE absolute - There ARE NO absolutes!!!"

HAPLO721

Wednesday, December 31, 2003 8:45 PM

I have a floor plan on my HD, not sure where I found it, but it looks pretty good. If anyone has a way of posting it on the 'net and then linking to it, gimme your email and I'll send you a copy.

Early: You ever been raped, Kaylee?
Kaylee: You know, it's funny you should mention that... ever heard of the Fox network?

CAPTRON

Wednesday, December 31, 2003 9:18 PM

Thanks for posting the ship plan!

Ron

DITHER

Thursday, January 1, 2004 6:20 AM

OK, just went back and looked thru "Serenity". Joss explains the missing couch area just as Mal is making the rendezvous with Patience on the vid-screen. He says they were in front of Wash's consoles but he removed them because he wanted the bridge to be about business and there was plenty of couch space on board already.

Also noticed a few more unexplained doors. There is one straight across from the infirmary as Book enters after Mal plays his psychotic trick on Simon. One in the kitchen (pantry?). A safe type door on the bridge. And a ladder at the back of the passenger's dorm that goes up to a door in the ceiling.

Also noticed that the set changed somewhat during shooting. When Book goes to warn the lawman that he's in danger and gets cracked over the head (no good deed goes unpunished ) I count only three bedroom doors on the wall. But there are four per side in other shots. And in the same scene the rear wall (with ladder) seems reversed. The black hose thing hanging on it is on the wrong side.

And when Wash and Kaylee trapped the thugs in the back hall (Heart of Gold) there is indeed an exit door in that hall. Wash was hiding there before running into the engine room. He must have locked it somehow so the thugs couldn't get out. It was closed.

edit: Oops, almost forgot. In one of the CGI scenes there is an exterior door just in front of Inara's shuttle. Dont know how it fits with the interior layout of the ship.
"That's why I never kiss 'em on the mouth."

CAPNRAHN

Friday, January 2, 2004 12:27 AM

Well mucho thanks to Haplo781 we have the floorplans of the sets from Firefly.

Looking at them you'll see why I think they are the prelim. floorplan, or blocking planner.

With no further ado ...

"Remember, there is only ONE absolute - There ARE NO absolutes!!!"

DITHER

Friday, January 2, 2004 3:36 AM

Interesting. I didn't think the passenger dorm was set up like that. Thought it went straight back with rooms on either side.

CAPNRAHN

Friday, January 2, 2004 4:12 AM

You can sorta notice it in Anara follow in ... gallramit ... can't remember the epi.

Anyhoo, she walks from the infirmary, up the fwd stairs into the cargo bay and up the fwd-stbd stairs - I think.

You can sorta see that the infirmary is at a sort weird angle in respect to the dorms. It was probably set up that way to match the curve of the Firefly's 'behind'.

"Remember, there is only ONE absolute - There ARE NO absolutes!!!"

TUNNEL

Friday, January 2, 2004 5:45 AM

I thought that ity went striaght back as well but there is one ep where Mal looks two directions into what could only be passenger quarters

"I got a discount, on account of my intimidating personality" Jayne (Need to watch it again but I think that's the quote.)

TUNNEL

Friday, January 2, 2004 5:56 AM

I've been working on the deck plans as well.

Here is the side view I've got so far.

http://home.houston.rr.com/tunnelinthesky/FF%20outline%202.1.JPG

SOJOURNER9

Monday, January 5, 2004 3:00 AM

This is in response to the digarm that Captainrahn posted -

Great diagram, thanks for posting it.

One error I noticed though is in the passenger areas. If you look at the rooms 6, 7, and 8 there should be one more room down that corridor.

Starting down that corridor is River to the left and Simon to the right. Then there is a ramp/stairs up just a couple of feet and then there are two more doors to the left and right.

CAPNRAHN

Monday, January 5, 2004 4:59 AM

Tunnel
Great upgraded cut-away. Did you use the side view here on FFFn (Serenity Up Close) to generate the 'outline'?
I as going to use the large C-A I screencapped from the DVD and use it as referance when I rework the wireframe pic into a Cut-Away.
In the C-A I like that the engine is 'plugged' into the center of the Firefly's 'behind'.
Only real problem with the C-A is the dimensions are wrong compared to the final CGI version.

EXAPMLE : Like how in the C-A the behind is tilted up instead of level, like it is in the CGI model.

Thanks for joining in!

Sojourner9
I think your are right. I am not sure who drew the deck plans, but I got them from Haplo728 here on the FFFn.
At some point I was going to try and correct them.
I just found out that I used to know a guy from zoic...(the CGI folks that did both Firefly and Galatica 2003)
... and I was going to give him a call and see if Lee remembers me from around Trek Con Huskster rooms from 4 years back.
It would be a nice contact for Firefly news. Lee was a pretty cool guy.

Anyhoo, I was hoping to ask him if he had seen the floorplans for the Serenity set - heh, ya never know!

General
I still am looking around my discs for that 3D house drafting program I know I have somewhere. Even a cheesy 3D walk thu of the Serenity would be cool.
Hopefully it would inspire a real CAD artist to fabricate a really shiny one.

"Remember, there is only ONE absolute - There ARE NO absolutes!!!"

TUNNEL

Tuesday, January 6, 2004 4:14 AM

Yes, I used the detailed FF side view to make the out line I used two posts up.

I need to go back and redo the passenger quarters on it.

One thing I've found is that the set doesn't quite match up to the CGI of FF's outside.

Namely, where in the CGI is the hatch that they climb out of in Trash?

HOLLYKNIGHT55

Tuesday, January 6, 2004 2:53 PM

Those are amazing! They are exactly what our roleplaying game needs! Thank you all! WHOOO!

Capatin Edgar Dickens
Firefly Class Transport: Monarch

Crew & Passengers Welcome
http://www.geocities.com/llbirdnow1/monarchhome.html

SHINY

Wednesday, January 7, 2004 1:43 AM

I'm a little confused about the layout of the 'catwalk' -- I know that in the front right there's the entrance to Inara's shuttle and the stairs up to the bridge/crew quarters and in the front left there's the entrance to the 2nd shuttle, but does the catwalk lead anywhere at the back right and back left (aft of the crossing stairs coming up from the floor of the cargo bay), or do both sides just end at the back wall of the cargo bay, with no doors or anything? In the opening scene to 'Bushwhacked', there seems to be a door at the aft end of at least the left catwalk, but I can't see what it would connect to...

RIVER
Purple elephants are flying.
MAL
Good. Thanks for the update.

TUNNEL

Wednesday, January 7, 2004 4:06 AM

You are correct. There are doors at the back end of the catwalks opposite the main ramp. One can be seen in Objects in Space when River is standing on the rails.

They never let on as to where they lead to though.

SHINY

Wednesday, January 7, 2004 5:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Tunnel:
You are correct. There are doors at the back end of the catwalks opposite the main ramp. One can be seen in Objects in Space when River is standing on the rails.

They never let on as to where they lead to though.

Based on the rest of the ship layout, it doesn't seem like there is much space to have rooms there...maybe just small storage closets?

RIVER
Purple elephants are flying.
MAL
Good. Thanks for the update.

KURUKAMI

Wednesday, January 7, 2004 6:39 PM

Quote:
One thing I've found is that the set doesn't quite match up to the CGI of FF's outside.

Namely, where in the CGI is the hatch that they climb out of in Trash?

That hatch had been pretty firmly established as being there long before that. It's the ladder that leads up to the airlock from the stair-corridor forward of the dining area.

In "Bushwhacked", when Simon and River are hiding outside the ship, they're directly outside the kitchen window, as we look inside to see the Alliance troops searching that locale.

In "Objects in Space", it's the entry that Early uses to get into the ship.

And, of course, it's in "Trash".

In "Objects in Space", though, it seemed pretty clear that the hatch-door folded flush with the structure of Serenity. Since it's only big enough to allow passage of a single person at a time, it's too small a detail to show up on most of the CGI displays.

History doesn't always repeat itself. Sometimes it merely shouts "Weren't you listening the first time?!?" and lets fly with a club.

FORTUNATUS

Wednesday, January 7, 2004 7:45 PM

My first post!

Quote:
Originally posted by Tunnel:
You are correct. There are doors at the back end of the catwalks opposite the main ramp.

They never let on as to where they lead to though.

The deck plans place the doors to the shuttles between the upper and lower decks. The doors at the end of the catwalks are at the same height as the shuttle doors, and would therefore lead to the big blank area between the aft hall and the guest dorm on the deck plans. They were probably put there to give Serenity some room to grow down the road.

As for the guest quarters, I think the Tams' rooms are directly aft of the infirmary. The rise of Serenity's rear bulb would explain the raised pair of rooms behind theirs.

The single room that Book prepares for Saffron in the deleted "marry us" scene (Our Mrs. Reynolds) is not along a corridor, and is (IIRC) at an angle to the corridor with the Tams' rooms.

I hope that's helpful. Whenever someone manages to cobble together some floor plans (assuming I don't manage to do it first), I'd be very interested in seeing 'em.

BEBE

Wednesday, January 7, 2004 9:31 PM

I do believe that CAPNRAHN version of the passanger dorms is accurate. I think "The Train Job" best illustrates this layout. When Mal is speaking with Book after leaving the infirmary there are dorms visible in both directions. So except for the mysterious doors scattered through the ship, I think it is correct.

I've been sane a while now, and change is good. -Wash

SOUPCATCHER

Thursday, January 8, 2004 12:18 AM

Just re-watched Serenity and found a good view of
the lower area of the bridge. It's from the Wash
dinosaur scene. The ladder goes down to an area
with more equipment and at least one active
display monitor. Just speculation on my part,
but it could be a post for another crew member,
navigation perhaps? Serenity doesn't have armaments
but if they were installed, this would also be
a good location for a nose gunner. I'm trying to
figure out why they would have more equipment on
the bridge but not directly accessible to the pilot.

I think the only area that I am still trying to get
a handle on is the crew dorm. There's some
vertical action going on (ladders going up with at
least one hatch above - possible alternate engine
access points).

Thanks all for helping me get a better feel for
the spatial lay-out. Are there only three access
points to Serenity? (top hatch - Early, bottom hatch - Jayne in Safe, airlock)

Monty: "I SHAVED MY BEARD FOR YOU, DEVIL WOMAN!"

FORTUNATUS

Thursday, January 8, 2004 2:05 AM

Objects in Space has some excellent shots of the guest dorm in the scenes in which Early ambushes Book and captures Simon. In the latter scene, the Tams' hallway looks straight at the red and silver ball sculpture that adorns the wall opposite the infirmary. And, Saffron's room is clearly in a diagonal hallway in the "marry me" scene. I blame early senility.

Anyway, that's the long way of saying that I now agree with CAPNRAHN's diagonal dorm hallways.

There are a bunch of ladders throughout those halls, and I think the guest rooms may be stacked two deep. There certainly seems to be a couple of doors near Early when we're looking up at him as he clings to the two ladders in the Tams' hall. Interestingly, there's only one ladder in the other hallway.

There's also a room behind Simon's, and probably one behind River's. At the end of River and Simon's hall, there's also a short set of stairs (Simon sits on them) leading to a ladder that goes to the ceiling (and presumably through it).

And, the hall that connects the infirmary and guest quarters to the cargo bay appears to be at an angle, placed where there's a diagonal line right next to, and fore of, the infirmary on CAPNRAHN's plans.

In Bushwacked, there's a good scene with everyone watching Simon work on the lone survivor. Kaylee stands on the stairs aft of the infirmary. Wash stands on a short set of curving steps that lead to a door on the fore end, where that diagonal line is. The fore end of the lounge, which is pretty dark, seems to end in a recess filled some large greeblies rather than a door. In other eps and the "marry me" scene (IIRC, but we've seen how that goes), it looks like the door next to Wash leads to the cargo bay.

Of course, that puts the whole infirmary at an angle to the axis of the ship and really messes with the angle of the guest dorms.

DITHER

Thursday, January 8, 2004 4:13 AM

Yes, definitely a lot of unexplained areas left. The front hall is pretty wide and the ladder holes to the crew quarters barely cut into it. So underneath the hall and between the rooms must be more space. Even if only to access the plumbing and wiring. Probably reachable via that room under the bridge.

But then that's what makes them old Fireflys so popular with smugglers and the like. All the nooks and crannies.

SHINY

Friday, January 9, 2004 1:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fortunatus:
My first post!

Quote:
Originally posted by Tunnel:
You are correct. There are doors at the back end of the catwalks opposite the main ramp.

They never let on as to where they lead to though.

The deck plans place the doors to the shuttles between the upper and lower decks. The doors at the end of the catwalks are at the same height as the shuttle doors, and would therefore lead to the big blank area between the aft hall and the guest dorm on the deck plans. They were probably put there to give Serenity some room to grow down the road.

You are probably right...listening to the commentary for Serenity again, I noticed Joss said (in reference to the stairs leading down at the front of the bridge, but probably equally applicable to the mystery doors at the back of the catwalk): "...and then, what's down those stairs is something we never established...because you always have to have a few spaces left..."

RIVER
Purple elephants are flying.
MAL
Good. Thanks for the update.

MOMAW

Sunday, January 18, 2004 5:09 AM

I'm working on my own version of the interior layout. My disast-- er, work-in-progress area:

Except I've run up against a problem. The CG Serenity and the Serenity stage used for live action filming, are not the same ship! I can't tell if the CG guys got creative, mis-measured, or what. Maybe the stage just makes for a really funny looking ship. At any rate, the interior doesn't fit inside the exterior in two major places.

(currently very crude model, use yer imagination)

1. The arrangement of the dining area, forward corridor, and cockpit. We see many times that there's only 3 or 4 steps up from the forward corridor up into the cockpit. But if you place the cockpit, take 3 steps down, then go straight back, you run out of ship. There needs to be a more substantial flight, perhaps 10-12 steps, to make it fit. Or have the corridor slope downward to match the profile of the 'neck', which it doesn't. Or the cockpit interior would need to be about 25 feet tall, which it isn't.

2a. The passenger berths and common area. If sized to what seems appropriate given the size of the other rooms (the floor plan as far as I can tell was drawn with a 1/2 inch marker, not exactly the best to-scale reference), the common area and medbay will fit, but pushes the passenger berths so far to back at they hang out of the ship in a lengthwise fashion (Z). They're supposed to a little bit, note the steps that Simon sits on when talking to Early, but not this much.

2b. Plus they're simply too wide in the beam to fit anywhere in the ship (X). If the passenger berths are scaled back so that they fit, it becomes a hotel for dwarfs or perhaps broomsticks depending which way you scale it. They almost fit here, but notice how the port and starboard halves of the berths area collide. (this is looking from the top in wireframe, that's the engine room mixing itself in)

There is a slight vertical distance between the cargo bay floor and the common room, perhaps 3 steps, but I haven't modelled that yet. It's going the wrong way anyway, it goes down and we need up.

Does anybody have any suggestions on how to correct these problems to best bring the interior and exterior into parity?

As a side effect of this project I've also found substantal "missing space" in the ship, above the common room. More than enough space for another compartment. Very mysterious.

The idea about the ladders at the end of the passenger berths leading to an engine crawlspace or similar seems reasonable.

SOUPCATCHER

Sunday, January 18, 2004 6:56 AM

Hopefully I can help with one of your problems

1. Here's a really good picture of the steps leading up to the bridge.

I count ten steps (including the landing).

Editted to add: Here's the original url http://www.average-bear.com/firefly/img/serenity-interior_1. (I left off the jpg suffix so that this shows up as text instead of an image)

I shaved off my beard for you, devil woman!

FOFFILMS

Sunday, January 18, 2004 6:59 AM

I think one way to help gain persepctive on the size opf the ship is to start at the shuttles.

On the pictures we have posted on the front page link (Serenity up close) you get a scale of the shuttle on the overhead view.

We know the shuttle cockpit is two seats, close together, probably a 5x4 space, this is directly adjacent to the main shuttle area, which we have seen in good proportion thanks to Inara's outings, and we can estimate it at a 10x12 room.

From there scaling can come into proportion. If you look at the nose of serenity she is the size of a shuttle, the cockpit area has that elongated space down front (couch space)

Abyway, I know that there is "dead" space on the ship, and we can figure a lot of it is mechanical.

Anyway, I'd be interested in seeing your work as it goes. I am doing a fan film and doing an actuial 3d model of the enitre inside of the ship as we are shooting the majority on green screen. So I am keenly working on scale and modeling myself.

Keep up the good work.

www.fof-films.com
Firefly Fan Film - Coming SOON

STEVE580

Monday, January 19, 2004 12:01 AM

Not all of the rooms need be entirely level, do they? Like the crew hallway - couldn't it be sloping down a bit? Not sure how drastic it would need to slop to fit the CG, but...

Or maybe, some rooms are sideways, or upside-down. After all, they do have artifical gravity

STEVE580

Monday, January 19, 2004 12:01 AM

.

MOMAW

Tuesday, January 20, 2004 10:36 AM

I'd not have a problem with rooms going off in strange directions, not staying all on one plane of orientation, but they don't seem to. That would make for some very bizarre camera work, since the directors were fond of following people as they walked around the ship. What do you do if your actor/s get to a "grav change" area? Methinks it would just make it seem disjointed and awkward, though scientifically acceptable (if you accept the premise that they have localized artifical gravity).

Anyway, with the cockpit, I played some more after seeing the 10-steps-up picture (don't know why I thought it was only 4 steps). It still doesn't fit. The problem is the low spot in the hull directedly forward of the dining area. The fore-corridor's vaulted ceiling must clear that low point, so the fore-corridor's position is a constant. The cockpit's relationship to the fore-corridor is also a constant, the cockpit floor is about level with the bottom of the corridor's vaulting. If you put the cockpit there, it needs to be too tall to meet the top of the front viewports (12 feet?), plus there's not enough space left under it for that little equipment area in the nose.

The passenger area is similarly impossible :) From careful screenshotting, I've noticed that the entire corridor floor in there is cuved upward, not just the end. Good try, set designer people, but 1) the whole area is too wide to fit in the ship at all, curving won't help you and 2) those rooms branch off at a 45, so the curvature of the ship's bulbous butt wouldn't be like that.

A third problem that's surfaced is the relationship between the cargo bay and the common room. The cargo hold is placed high enough in the hull that there's a crawlspace under. We get a good shot of this height in Bushwacked when Kaylee has to get in there. That all works fine. The problem is when you want to get into the common room, there's some stairs leading down. I suspected those were a problem and now know they are: put those in, and it makes the common and passenger areas push out of the ship even farther.

At this point I'm figuring that I'll forget about trying to match up to the exterior hull, and just take the interior as canon.

"This must be what going mad feels like..."

HANS

Tuesday, January 20, 2004 1:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Momaw:
(stuff cut)
The problem is the low spot in the hull directedly forward of the dining area. The fore-corridor's vaulted ceiling must clear that low point, so the fore-corridor's position is a constant. The cockpit's relationship to the fore-corridor is also a constant, the cockpit floor is about level with the bottom of the corridor's vaulting. If you put the cockpit there, it needs to be too tall to meet the top of the front viewports (12 feet?), plus there's not enough space left under it for that little equipment area in the nose.

The passenger area is similarly impossible :) From careful screenshotting, I've noticed that the entire corridor floor in there is cuved upward, not just the end. Good try, set designer people, but 1) the whole area is too wide to fit in the ship at all, curving won't help you and 2) those rooms branch off at a 45, so the curvature of the ship's bulbous butt wouldn't be like that.

A third problem that's surfaced is the relationship between the cargo bay and the common room. The cargo hold is placed high enough in the hull that there's a crawlspace under. We get a good shot of this height in Bushwacked when Kaylee has to get in there. That all works fine. The problem is when you want to get into the common room, there's some stairs leading down. I suspected those were a problem and now know they are: put those in, and it makes the common and passenger areas push out of the ship even farther.

At this point I'm figuring that I'll forget about trying to match up to the exterior hull, and just take the interior as canon.

"This must be what going mad feels like..."

Very good analysis! I've been working on my own plans and cutaways, and am coming up with similar problems. There are several constraints around the ship that limit what you can fit in there. As you mentioned, the low point between the front hall and the bridge is one. The height of the bridge is another - in many scenes we can see the people standing in front of the bridge window. The top of the window looks like it is just above their heads, the bottom at the level of their feet, but comparing it to the side views of the ship overall this would make the people much too tall. But when you scale down the people, the top of the forward window is suddenly 10-12' high!

The little room below the bridge is also a big problem. You have to shrink the scale of the ship way down before there's room for another level down there. For now I'm assuming it is just some sort of electronics room or sensor pod, maybe no more than 5' high. In at least one episode (I wish I noted which one) we see Wash and Mal climbing up the ladder from that area, so it can't be too small.

Another problem is the ladder from the passenger area up to the rear hallway. Remember, the floor of the passenger area is below the floor of the cargo bay. The cargo bay is almost three floors high, with the dining area above. And the dining area is at least a couple of steps below the rear hall. From what we've seen of the ladder going up from the passenger area, and the stairs/ladder it meets at the top (another set, I know), it doesn't look like it goes up high enough.

Another constraint on the scale of the ship is the shuttles. Take the top view of the ship. We see half a shuttle jutting out both sides of the ship. Copy, paste, and rotate those half ships so we can see just how wide the shuttles are, and how far they extend into the body of the ship. Remember that there seems to be a short airlock between the shuttle and the cargo bay. Whatever space you have left between the shuttles (and airlocks) is the maximum width of the cargo bay. And since the cargo bay walls go out as you go up, the floor of the cargo bay is even narrower. If we take a guess at the width of the cargo bay (30'?) we can start to get the scale of the ships.

Also, the floors of the shuttle seem to be only a foot or two higher than the upper catwalk.

Unlike you, I have not had any problem fitting the passenger dorms in t

HANS

Tuesday, January 20, 2004 2:24 PM

I totally forgot! In one of the commentaries or extras I think Joss said something about the length of the ship, something like "there's only so much you can fit in 190 feet". Anyone have an exact quote?

190' can be either the interior or exterior length. Obviously if it's exterior the scale is larger, but they are fairly similar, and fairly reasonable.

Another way to measure height is to look at the front view of the ship (btw, like all of you, I'm sure, I'm using the "serenity up close" images from this website). You get a pretty good view of the height of the shuttles. Since there's enough room inside the shuttles for a 6' tall person to stand and not bump their head, we can take a guess at the scale. Interestingly enough, the height of the shuttle seems to match the same scale we get if we assume the ship is 190' long (interior or exterior length, though if the 190' is exterior the scale is a almost a little too large - Mal would be bumping his head on the shuttle ceiling. There is room for error of course).

Again, staying with the front view of the exterior, we can guess at the scale by looking at the bridge window. The front window is 9' tall if we are using the 190' measurement as the length of the exterior of the ship, 10' tall if we assume the 190' is an interior measurement. Both 9' and 10' seem a little high, based on what the height looks like on camera (I'd guess 7') but not unreasonable.

Interestingly enough, if you look through the bridge window on the front view you can see the hatch that leads down to the front hallway! Because of issues of perspective it's hard to judge the height, but using the scales mentioned above a 6' tall person should be able to pass through the hallway with no problem.

Assuming those exterior pictures are accurate, I'd say we can get a very precise picture of the scale of the ship. At their original resolution (2000 pixels) wide we get:

10 pixels=1 foot (if 190' is exterior measurement)

9 pixels=1 foot (if 190' is an interior measurement)

Of course, this is when all the problems with the differences between the exterior design and interior sets arise. The floor of the bridge, which should only by about 5' above the front hallway (accrding to the set), is instead 10' or more higher. If the difference was less, the area connecting the dining lounge to the front hallway would be in deep space.

Also, the shuttles appear to be mounted too high on the sides of the ship. On the set, the floor of the shuttles seems to be 2 or 3 steps higher than the level of the upper catwalk. From the upper catwalk to the ceiling is at least 8' or so (see the pic of River, above), and of course the dining area is above that ceiling. But the height of the shuttles pushes the dining area too high, and again makes the connection between dining room and front hallway too high. It also leaves no room for the (hypothetical) airlock above this area (seen on Objects in Space, etc.).

Of course, one solution to fit all this stuff inside the ship is to scale everything down (6 pixels = 1 foot, or less), but this creates its own problems...the bridge becomes huge, the floor of the cargo bay is halfway up the ship, etc.

STEVE580

Tuesday, January 20, 2004 4:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hans:
...schematic coming soon!

Awesome, I look forward to it.

MOMAW

Tuesday, January 20, 2004 5:47 PM

>> And since the cargo bay walls go out as you go up, the floor of the cargo bay is even narrower. <<

Did you notice that the walls of the cargo hold have two seperate angles to them? I didn't at first. Helps reclaim a bit of space where it's needed. This shot shows it very well:

What program are you working in, by the way? If you've got some way of saving out a .3DS file, I'd love to see what you've got so far :) I may also be able to use DXF or X, or if you've got Truespace, an OBJ would be fantastic. And you're welcome to mine too, but I suspect that you're farther along than me. momaw@nhvt.net is my cave, drop in some time if ye'd like.

>> In at least one episode (I wish I noted which one) we see Wash and Mal climbing up the ladder from that area, so it can't be too small. <<

I'm wondering if that hatch to the left side of the stairs leading up to control room opens into this smaller equipment area. Note in "Our Mrs. Reynolds" that Zoe says, "She's sealed both entrances". So the stairs aren't the only way in.

>> Another problem is the ladder from the passenger area up to the rear hallway. <<

Haven't quite figured those steps out myself. At the beginning of "The Train Job", we get taken for a ride and it LOOKS like they work... But it's a hell of a climb up, as you pointed out. To make the connection, the bottom of the staircase has to be pushed back a bit...

I didn't even try messing aroud with scale yet. Just trying to get a basic block-out is turning into a chore. What I wouldn't give for an hour on the set with a tape measure :P

>> Another constraint on the scale of the ship is the shuttles. <<

Another note on the shuttles, getting them into the ship in the proper places according to the external isometric views is easy as pie. It's making the connection INTERNALLY that seems impossible. We're meant to believe that they have a side hatch that opens onto the top level of the cargo hold's catwalks; but the only way to make them fit is to have them sitting on *top* of the cargo hold:

If you place the cargo hold high enough to make the shuttle connection, the dining room gets pushed out the top of the ship which screws up everything else too. If we didn't see several clear shots of the shuttle opening directly into the cargo hold, I'd say that they had a hatch in the bottom that you entered via ladder; that would work just fine. No such luck...

HANS

Tuesday, January 20, 2004 6:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Momaw:

What program are you working in, by the way? If you've got some way of saving out a .3DS file, I'd love to see what you've got so far :) I may also be able to use DXF or X, or if you've got Truespace, an OBJ would be fantastic. And you're welcome to mine too, but I suspect that you're farther along than me. momaw@nhvt.net is my cave, drop in some time if ye'd like.

Right now I'm still playing around in the first two dimensions...no 3d model yet. I was starting one (in Poser, since I had that available) but wanted to resolve the contridictions first.

Quote:
Originally posted by Momaw:

I'm wondering if that hatch to the left side of the stairs leading up to control room opens into this smaller equipment area. Note in "Our Mrs. Reynolds" that Zoe says, "She's sealed both entrances". So the stairs aren't the only way in.

Yeah, I noted that as well. I guess that hatch must be the second entrance, it doesn't look like there's room in the neck for any other access point (and even that entrance must be some sort of crawlspace). Of course, in addition to the main hatch and staircase there's a third way off the bridge: the small hatch to the side of the main hatch on the inside of the main bridge. It seems to be in line with the hatch outside the bridge, about 6 feet higher. Maybe there's some vertical tube connecting the two, plus the crawlspace running forward to the staircase. It might look something like this from the side:

x] <-Bridge hatch
x \
Hallway hatch -> [xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx\ <- stairs up

...with the "x"s showing the tube/crawlspace.

Quote:
Originally posted by Momaw:

I didn't even try messing aroud with scale yet. Just trying to get a basic block-out is turning into a chore. What I wouldn't give for an hour on the set with a tape measure :P

I thought figuring out the scale might help clear up some of the problems...instead it only confirmed them! :)

Quote:
Originally posted by Momaw:

If you place the cargo hold high enough to make the shuttle connection, the dining room gets pushed out the top of the ship which screws up everything else too. If we didn't see several clear shots of the shuttle opening directly into the cargo hold, I'd say that they had a hatch in the bottom that you entered via ladder; that would work just fine. No such luck...

There is a short set of steps up from the catwalk to the shuttle entrance. It's only about two feet, though, not enough to account for this discrepency. Since we can't see exactly how far down the floor of the shuttle extends, with a lot of fudging (and imagining there's another step or two up to the shuttle inside that airlock area), it sorta kinda works. In fact, maybe the shuttles we see in the exterior pictures are raised up 5 feet or so in "launch position". When fully nestled into the ship they are sunken down further (a stretch, I know).

The killer, though, is the whole front hallway/dining area/bridge connection. Having tried creating schematics at multiple scales I believe there's no way to get everything to fit. Either the floor of the bridge is way too low, or the dining area and its hallway stick out of the top of the ship. I think we just have to resolve ourselves to the fact that the exterior pictures and the interior sets do not line up perfectly (sob).

Possible (wacky) solutions:

1.The head and neck of Serenity can swivel up and down. In the side view, the neck is up, but in the interior shors we've seen, its been down.

2.The "windshield" is actually double-paned. What we can see on the exterior view is the outer pane. The inner pane is behind and lower (making the floor of the bridge lower). Actually, I kinda like this idea!

Hans

NOOCYTE

Wednesday, January 21, 2004 8:16 AM

PMJI;

Has anyone tried modeling the front hallway with a slight incline "upward" (i.e., a slight positive angle to the longitudinal axis) toward the bridge? It wouldn't have to be a huge slope, and it might resolve the issue of how low the hull cuts just fore of the mess hall (important, since sucking vacuum just before a meal can make one a mite ornery).

Department of Redundancy Department

SOUPCATCHER

Wednesday, January 21, 2004 9:50 AM

In regards to the stairs up from the passenger common area to the back hall: Do we ever get a good view of the stairs after the first turn? The stairs start up heading toward the outer hull, hit a landing and turn left, hit another landing and turn left, and then top out leading into the back hallway. The section of stairs paralleling the back hallway (after the first turn) could gain a lot of height.

I have the impression that the front hallway was at a slight incline to the floor of the dining area.

Another question I have is that in the exterior shots it looks like there is an airlock over the top of the dining area. Am I imagining things?

I shaved off my beard for you, devil woman!