What did Book mean by .......

POSTED BY: Cain
UPDATED: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 06:47
VIEWED: 9663
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CAIN

Sunday, May 21, 2006 2:56 PM

In "Objects in Space" River hears a snippet of each character's deepest thoughts. All of them are really thinking these things, but perhaps not in the context River thinks.

What Shepard Book was thinking while talking with Jayne really bugged me..

What exactly did he think (say in his mind) and what do you folks think it meant ??? Was he thinking about River ??

Thanks for YOUR thoughts, from a new recruit!!

-- Cain

LOOKATTHATBIRD

Sunday, May 21, 2006 3:18 PM

He says "I don't give half a hump if you're innocent or not, so where does that leave you?"

That one really bugs me too. I can't decide on a theory that would make it make sense. All the other thoughts were set in the present and relevant the their conversations. I've heard a lot of people say that maybe it means he's still working for the alliance, or has worked for the alliance in the past(which woudldn't really make sense). I don't think the mystery of Book can all be summed up in him having ties to the alliance, it would be too obvious. Also, since they were talking about sex, it could have something to do with that. Like he's planning on rapeing River? I don't know, but I SO wish I did.

LAUGHINGMUSE

Sunday, May 21, 2006 4:11 PM

One way to see it is that Jayne's thoughts and Book's thoughts are their own unspoken discussion. Their thoughts have everything to do with the two men and their relationship, and nothing to do with River. Their thoughts weren't directly, explicitly related to their current conversation, but it's a constant undertone.

Jayne enjoys Book's company, probably appreciates the non-judgemental treatment he gets from the preacher, and admires Book and wants to emulate him (in ways. No, Jayne is not going to take orders any time soon.) That's fairly standard behavior: you like someone, you admire someone, you want to emulate someone because you like and admire them. Jayne knows that Kaylee, Zoe, Wash...everyone would be very disgusted with him if they found out about his betrayal of the Tams. He wants to be liked. He wants to be admired. Rock-bottom, he wants to be accepted. But he wants people to care about him, one way or the other (like or hate) because that means that they at least acknowledge his existence. Jayne doesn't have a strong self-esteem, and defines himself very heavily - possibly almost exclusively - on others' opinions of him.

Book doesn't care about what Jayne did or didn't do. Book is going to leave the judgement of Jayne's actions...up to Jayne. He's not going to approve, he's not going to disapprove, he's not going to ignore. He's simply not going to be the approving / enabling / punishing person that Jayne seems to need him to be. Book is forcing Jayne to take the responsibility of his own deeds.

Shorthand: he's not going to kick Jayne out of the house, but he is going to encourage him to grow up.

(Of course, part of the amazing coolth of Joss' writing is that these fragments are so very simple that they could be taken a number of ways. Except Simon's "I would be there right now," which is pretty specific. And we didn't hear anything from Kaylee. Hmmmm...)

---------------------------------
Mankind makes tools; we use them to augment our hands, arms and legs.
The computer augments the brain and this makes it very unpopular with totalitarians. - Charles J.C. Lyall

CAIN

Monday, May 22, 2006 12:05 AM

Unfortunately, since the discussion was about sex, and Jayne had just asked Book if he masturbated, I took it as a sexual fantasy zipping around in Book's head about River.... Like maybe one he has while masturbating thinking about River...

And it made me uncomfortable (as it was probably intended to)...

COPILOT

Monday, May 22, 2006 12:15 AM

Book wasn't always a Shepard. He may not even have been a real Shepard during the show or movie. At one time he was or is something like an Operative. I think at the very least he was once a high ranking Alliance Official. This is my opinion gleened from several episodes and bits of the movie. I can't say exactly what that exact sentence ment but to me it means he knows that at some point he may have to kill River. Or it could just be the inner man fighting to break free of his gental exterior. Perhaps a normal human rage constantly being forced down my mediation and bible passages.

An I carried such a torch

LAUGHINGMUSE

Monday, May 22, 2006 12:31 AM

Oh, thank goodness. When no one was responding, I thought I'd earned a few more points toward my Thread Killer merit badge.

Religion is often seen as a tool humans use to master their baser instincts - so Copilot, your quote

Quote:
Perhaps a normal human rage constantly being forced down my mediation and bible passages.

is pretty applicable. It's also, to me, another reason why the friendship between Jayne and Book is so interesting.

---------------------------------
Mankind makes tools; we use them to augment our hands, arms and legs.
The computer augments the brain and this makes it very unpopular with totalitarians. - Charles J.C. Lyall

CAIN

Monday, May 22, 2006 12:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by copilot:
Book wasn't always a Shepard. He may not even have been a real Shepard during the show or movie. At one time he was or is something like an Operative. I think at the very least he was once a high ranking Alliance Official. This is my opinion gleened from several episodes and bits of the movie. I can't say exactly what that exact sentence ment but to me it means he knows that at some point he may have to kill River. Or it could just be the inner man fighting to break free of his gental exterior. Perhaps a normal human rage constantly being forced down my mediation and bible passages.

An I carried such a torch

That makes a lot of sense....

DAVESHAYNE

Monday, May 22, 2006 1:06 AM

I'm gonna chime in with an alternative I haven't really seen explored before. As a christian Book is concerned with saving River's soul a process that doesn't involve guilt or innocence but (as I understand the concept) merely requires the penitents willingness to accept JC as her savior. Perhaps River is just interpreting the evangelical impulse in the least favorable light.

David

"Not completely as well as the series of Firefly..." - From a review of Serenity at amazon.de

SHEPARDBOOK

Monday, May 22, 2006 9:16 AM

Quote:
Book wasn't always a Shepard. He may not even have been a real Shepard during the show or movie. At one time he was or is something like an Operative. I think at the very least he was once a high ranking Alliance Official.quote]

I reckon Book is a shepard, but he has a past which involved the Alliance, weapons knowlege, etc. before becoming a shepard. But Copilot raises a valid point because in "Objects from Space" Early (the bounty hunter) says that Book isn't a Shepard.

"I don't care, 'cos I'm still free. You can't take the sky from me."

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