Blue Sun Room GRAPHICS - IMAGES
"Siblings"
Friday, January 14, 2005
Charcoal on paper, Paula Tabor 2004, http://www.slushgem.com/siblings.htm I have a question about copyright/permission that I'll post to comments below. Any info or help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
CATEGORY: GRAPHICS TIMES READ: 1193 RATING: 8.0 (G) SERIES: FIREFLY
Comments
SLUSHGEM
Friday, 14 January 2005 12:17
I'm new to this forum, and I have a question. I’m the artist who did this pic and I’m rather proud of it.
Its not just fan art. I’m a professional artist/illustrator. As such, I sell prints on my that site http://www.slushgem.com/siblings.htm and at art shows like MegaCon and Dragon* Con.
In the course of monitoring some of the on-line forums for illustrators, the subject of copyright violations have come up. I’ve been getting a lot of mixed messages about doing this sort of thing. My previous understanding was that this it was tolerated (or even liked) by the powers-that-be as a form of free advertising. But lately, I’ve been also been hearing some legal horror stories, too.
Anyone who’s ever tried to make a living at something they love will understand that the excitement about having a viable product isn’t always just about greed. Also, having an opportunity to be show off one’s skills as a portraitist AND illustrate scenes in setting that you KNOW people will understand and be enthusiastic about…?? Well, its just pretty darn compelling stuff for an artist like myself. And so much FUN!
I just loved the show and have had such a wealth of inspiration from it--well, I just hate to stop making and promoting this kind of work. But getting a Cease and Desist order or a lawsuit for doing it without permission doesn’t sound like too much fun, either.
So, I’d like to see if its possible to get permission.
It may not be. Its entirely possible that such a thing involves licensing, attorneys, contracts, fees and other things that aren’t terribly feasible for a small fish like me. But I’d like to give it a try. And I have no idea where to even start.
I understand that people involved in the making of the show occasionally monitor and participate in forums like these. So, if someone with knowledge of the inner workings of the various agencies that do Firefly & Serenity, (Mutant Enemy, Universal, etc) is out there.... Or perhaps there’s a kind and generous intellectual property lawyer in the fan-base (it could happen…)
In any case, if anyone has any knowledge about this sort of thing, I’d really appreciate any help you could give. I’ll keep an eye out on the forum, but you’re more than welcome to reply directly to art@slushgem.com
And, having stuck my neck out in the cause of legitimacy, I say unto the powers-that-be: please don’t sue me yet.
Paula T
Its not just fan art. I’m a professional artist/illustrator. As such, I sell prints on my that site http://www.slushgem.com/siblings.htm and at art shows like MegaCon and Dragon* Con.
In the course of monitoring some of the on-line forums for illustrators, the subject of copyright violations have come up. I’ve been getting a lot of mixed messages about doing this sort of thing. My previous understanding was that this it was tolerated (or even liked) by the powers-that-be as a form of free advertising. But lately, I’ve been also been hearing some legal horror stories, too.
Anyone who’s ever tried to make a living at something they love will understand that the excitement about having a viable product isn’t always just about greed. Also, having an opportunity to be show off one’s skills as a portraitist AND illustrate scenes in setting that you KNOW people will understand and be enthusiastic about…?? Well, its just pretty darn compelling stuff for an artist like myself. And so much FUN!
I just loved the show and have had such a wealth of inspiration from it--well, I just hate to stop making and promoting this kind of work. But getting a Cease and Desist order or a lawsuit for doing it without permission doesn’t sound like too much fun, either.
So, I’d like to see if its possible to get permission.
It may not be. Its entirely possible that such a thing involves licensing, attorneys, contracts, fees and other things that aren’t terribly feasible for a small fish like me. But I’d like to give it a try. And I have no idea where to even start.
I understand that people involved in the making of the show occasionally monitor and participate in forums like these. So, if someone with knowledge of the inner workings of the various agencies that do Firefly & Serenity, (Mutant Enemy, Universal, etc) is out there.... Or perhaps there’s a kind and generous intellectual property lawyer in the fan-base (it could happen…)
In any case, if anyone has any knowledge about this sort of thing, I’d really appreciate any help you could give. I’ll keep an eye out on the forum, but you’re more than welcome to reply directly to art@slushgem.com
And, having stuck my neck out in the cause of legitimacy, I say unto the powers-that-be: please don’t sue me yet.
Paula T
Friday, 14 January 2005 16:04
I don't think sketches are a problem. I think where they might get techy is about fans using stills from the show in creating artwork to sell. I created some faux teaser posters for Serenity that used stills from the show, and those probably wouldn't be legal to sell. But your artwork should be fine. Cons often have an artshow/room where the art is for sale, and to my knowledge TPTB have never cracked down on them.
ANONYMOUS
Friday, 14 January 2005 22:16
I don't know about River - but that picture of Simon is bloody brilliant!
Saturday, 15 January 2005 02:39
slushgem
I have to agree with the anonymous poster, something with river isn't quite right. I think it has something to do with the eye shape/placement because when I scroll down with just her mouth showing it looks more like her. As for Simon- WOW not only did you capture his likeness but also his personality.
Breda
I have to agree with the anonymous poster, something with river isn't quite right. I think it has something to do with the eye shape/placement because when I scroll down with just her mouth showing it looks more like her. As for Simon- WOW not only did you capture his likeness but also his personality.
Breda
Saturday, 15 January 2005 05:04
I like it, but i think River's face is to wide.
Simon, a perfect 10!!!
Simon, a perfect 10!!!
Sunday, 16 January 2005 07:45
I'm not a lawyer, just another artist who also loves doing art for Firefly. From what I understand, after several conversations with knowledgeable folks, there is some gray area in creating art based on a copyrighted property. Some companies just turn a blind eye to fan produced work, while others protect their properties with a "zero tolerance" attitude. (Just try and sell fan made illustrations of Mickey Mouse and see what happens... )
Yes, when we make art we are basing it on a copyrighted property. But the art itself is a new creation by the artist, it is a new creation in its own right (so long as it's not a straight screen capture or reproduction of Firefly/Serenity promotional materials).
Also, individual fan made creations do help to keep the fan base lively and involved, which is beneficial to the property. Any money that fans may make from their work is hardly a big deal to a multi-million dollar corporation. The items that fans create are also a different offering than what a studio would produce, so there really isn't any competition there. Studios are not experiencing "lost revenue" from fan made items. It's really a separate world.
The kind of copyright infringements a studio would be far more concerned about are things like pirating the DVDs, or secretly filming a Serenity preview. Those are the types of activities which actively work against studio revenues. Those are really damaging, and a far more serious matter than some fans selling art that they made themselves.
I'm sensitive to the copyright issue, I even created my own "Firefly" logo to put on my guerilla marketing posters... and I don't even make any money on the posters, they're free! But I can safely say that the posters do not have any outside copyrighted material in them, they are all original works of art. They are *based* on a copyrighted property, but they are my original work... just as your drawing is your original work.
Fan art can do a lot to promote a show or movie. But it's main value is the enjoyment it gives to the fans, which does so much to strengthen the fan base. It doesn't cost the studio a thing, and it doesn't harm them. And a strong, vibrant fan base is a good thing to a studio -- it means buying more movie tickets and (when it becomes available) official merchandise. Firefly's endurance owes so much to the love and support of the fans, a savvy studio understands this... and will it definitely reap the rewards!
11th Hour
Yes, when we make art we are basing it on a copyrighted property. But the art itself is a new creation by the artist, it is a new creation in its own right (so long as it's not a straight screen capture or reproduction of Firefly/Serenity promotional materials).
Also, individual fan made creations do help to keep the fan base lively and involved, which is beneficial to the property. Any money that fans may make from their work is hardly a big deal to a multi-million dollar corporation. The items that fans create are also a different offering than what a studio would produce, so there really isn't any competition there. Studios are not experiencing "lost revenue" from fan made items. It's really a separate world.
The kind of copyright infringements a studio would be far more concerned about are things like pirating the DVDs, or secretly filming a Serenity preview. Those are the types of activities which actively work against studio revenues. Those are really damaging, and a far more serious matter than some fans selling art that they made themselves.
I'm sensitive to the copyright issue, I even created my own "Firefly" logo to put on my guerilla marketing posters... and I don't even make any money on the posters, they're free! But I can safely say that the posters do not have any outside copyrighted material in them, they are all original works of art. They are *based* on a copyrighted property, but they are my original work... just as your drawing is your original work.
Fan art can do a lot to promote a show or movie. But it's main value is the enjoyment it gives to the fans, which does so much to strengthen the fan base. It doesn't cost the studio a thing, and it doesn't harm them. And a strong, vibrant fan base is a good thing to a studio -- it means buying more movie tickets and (when it becomes available) official merchandise. Firefly's endurance owes so much to the love and support of the fans, a savvy studio understands this... and will it definitely reap the rewards!
11th Hour
Wednesday, 19 January 2005 12:58
Simon looks absolutely spot on.
Also want to note how good the hands look, I know how damn hard they are to draw!
Also want to note how good the hands look, I know how damn hard they are to draw!
SLUSHGEM
Wednesday, 19 January 2005 23:27
Thank you. I appreciate all the compliments.
Simon was done in about 20 minutes, but I beat my head against the sketchpad on River, literally, for days. She's not as good as he is, but there comes a time when you have to decide whether something IS the best you can do...
Does anyone have any comments on my original questions listed above?
Someone from another forum mentioned that getting permission from a copyright holder can be done with only a letter.
So, I'm wondering how I find out who owns the copyright to images of the actors in the show and contact them?
Paula Tabor
Simon was done in about 20 minutes, but I beat my head against the sketchpad on River, literally, for days. She's not as good as he is, but there comes a time when you have to decide whether something IS the best you can do...
Does anyone have any comments on my original questions listed above?
Someone from another forum mentioned that getting permission from a copyright holder can be done with only a letter.
So, I'm wondering how I find out who owns the copyright to images of the actors in the show and contact them?
Paula Tabor
Thursday, 20 January 2005 05:28
>>> Does anyone have any comments on my original questions listed above? <<<
Well I wrote a pretty lengthy reply.
Even though I began my reply with the "I'm not a lawyer" thing, I offered what experience I have on this matter. I've spoken directly with Mutant Enemy folks, and the actors themselves... there isn't a real problem with a fan doing (tasteful) art. So long as you are just an individual doing art on a small scale, it's not such a big deal. Really.
At the 2003 L.A. ComiCon a vendor was selling LOTS of prints of a Firefly montage drawing he did. Plenty of fans were taking this artwork up for the actors, and Joss and Tim, to sign... and they were just fine with it! I even took a little short video of Nathan showing the print to Gina and they both were admiring it. No one of the Firefly gang had any problems with the art at all.
But follow your own judgement of course. I'm just offering some of my own personal experience.
11thHour
P.S.
Btw, the person who owns the copyright to your drawing is... you. :-)
Well I wrote a pretty lengthy reply.
Even though I began my reply with the "I'm not a lawyer" thing, I offered what experience I have on this matter. I've spoken directly with Mutant Enemy folks, and the actors themselves... there isn't a real problem with a fan doing (tasteful) art. So long as you are just an individual doing art on a small scale, it's not such a big deal. Really.
At the 2003 L.A. ComiCon a vendor was selling LOTS of prints of a Firefly montage drawing he did. Plenty of fans were taking this artwork up for the actors, and Joss and Tim, to sign... and they were just fine with it! I even took a little short video of Nathan showing the print to Gina and they both were admiring it. No one of the Firefly gang had any problems with the art at all.
But follow your own judgement of course. I'm just offering some of my own personal experience.
11thHour
P.S.
Btw, the person who owns the copyright to your drawing is... you. :-)
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